From: Michael Heerdegen <michael_heerdegen@web.de>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>
Cc: dmitry@gutov.dev, mattias.engdegard@gmail.com,
66706@debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca,
stefankangas@gmail.com
Subject: bug#66706: [PATCH] Automatic elisp dialect insertion
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2023 09:24:19 +0200 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <87fs1wil3w.fsf@web.de> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <8334xwfuo1.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Fri, 27 Oct 2023 09:26:06 +0300")
Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
> How many of init files do indeed require dynamic binding? And why?
It was the default, and when I read what others mention ("look at the
code is posted here and there"), I guess there are a lot. And exactly
those users will have problems with the upgrade.
If you look at the code that is posted in emacs-help, you see that some
people use a coding style that heavily depends on dynamical binding.
>
> If a new Emacs version refuses to start because something in the init
> files goes against some new Emacs feature, we have --debug-init and
> other facilities to debug and fix those.
I don't think that a debugger is that helpful for rewriting that stuff.
> Why should lexical-binding be considered different from any other
> backward-incompatible change that we sometimes do?
As I said: it's unnecessary to break Emacs startup when we can just be
nice and use the other dialect. We can still force users to rewrite
their init file in nicer ways.
> In any case, how will injecting the cookie help those users, exactly?
> If people who write init files don't understand the implications of
> lexical-binding, their Emacs will fail to start, something that you
> think is a catastrophe. And if they do understand it, their init
> files are already compatible with lexical-binding.
If Emacs starts and it doesn't find a lexical-binding cookie in the init
file, it might be written in the dynamically binding dialect. I suggest
that Emacs then prompts the user: hey, your init file lacks that cookie,
if you upgraded your Emacs recently, it is likely that I should
interpret it as dynamically binding, although lexical-binding is the
new default. If you just installed Emacs, you should use "lexical-binding".
Use lexical binding for now (y-or-n)?
And then you would be instructed to add a cookie for the init file.
With a hint where to look up the relevant information about the two
dialects.
> Your point seems to be incompatible with our plan, which is to turn on
> lexical-binding by default at some point. We don't want to have a
> schism of two separate flavors of Lisp, we want only one. The current
> situation is a transitional period, not the ideal. You seem to be
> suggesting that we should keep this situation forever, and that is not
> what we decided, AFAIU.
No, I don't think you fully understand. I only want to help the users
with the transition. Nice programs do that, they help you a bit with
necessary changes to your config after major changes.
I suggest this treatment only for the init file. And also only for a
transitional period (I already said that though...).
Michael.
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2023-10-27 7:24 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 71+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2023-10-23 17:46 bug#66706: [PATCH] Automatic elisp dialect insertion Mattias Engdegård
2023-10-23 18:21 ` Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2023-10-23 18:44 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-10-23 19:21 ` Stefan Kangas
2023-10-23 20:20 ` Mattias Engdegård
2023-10-24 17:31 ` Mattias Engdegård
2023-10-24 18:25 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-10-24 19:19 ` Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2023-10-24 20:22 ` Stefan Kangas
2023-10-25 2:31 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-10-25 11:56 ` Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2023-10-25 12:17 ` Stefan Kangas
2023-10-25 12:54 ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-10-26 0:31 ` Michael Heerdegen
2023-10-26 6:35 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-10-27 3:14 ` Michael Heerdegen
2023-10-27 6:26 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-10-27 7:24 ` Michael Heerdegen [this message]
2023-10-27 7:32 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-10-27 14:41 ` Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2023-10-29 12:26 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-10-25 0:59 ` Po Lu via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2023-10-25 1:20 ` Po Lu via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2023-10-25 2:01 ` Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2023-10-25 3:01 ` Po Lu via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2023-10-25 11:48 ` Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2023-10-25 12:46 ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-10-25 12:48 ` Po Lu via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2023-10-25 14:56 ` Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2023-10-25 16:04 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-10-26 0:01 ` Po Lu via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2023-10-25 12:03 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-10-25 13:06 ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-10-25 13:20 ` Po Lu via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2023-10-25 13:40 ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-10-26 0:07 ` Jim Porter
2023-10-26 0:40 ` Po Lu via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2023-10-26 0:51 ` Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2023-10-26 1:19 ` Jim Porter
2023-10-26 1:41 ` Po Lu via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2023-10-26 3:48 ` Jim Porter
2023-10-26 5:56 ` Jim Porter
2023-10-26 7:09 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-10-26 2:37 ` Drew Adams
2023-10-26 2:28 ` Drew Adams
2023-10-26 5:21 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-10-25 13:57 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-10-25 15:11 ` Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2023-10-25 16:08 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-10-25 16:10 ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-10-25 16:20 ` Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2023-10-26 0:02 ` Po Lu via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2023-10-25 18:19 ` Mattias Engdegård
2023-10-25 18:40 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-10-25 19:09 ` Mattias Engdegård
2023-10-25 23:43 ` Po Lu via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2023-10-26 0:07 ` Jim Porter
2023-10-26 2:34 ` Drew Adams
2023-10-26 3:56 ` Jim Porter
2023-10-26 5:22 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-10-26 6:31 ` Po Lu via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2023-10-26 13:54 ` Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2023-10-26 14:02 ` Po Lu via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2023-10-26 15:35 ` Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2023-10-26 8:32 ` Mattias Engdegård
2023-10-26 11:39 ` Nikolay Kudryavtsev
2023-10-26 15:36 ` Drew Adams
2023-10-25 12:36 ` Nikolay Kudryavtsev
2023-10-25 12:48 ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-10-26 11:06 ` Nikolay Kudryavtsev
2023-10-25 2:27 ` Eli Zaretskii
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