From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Sean Whitton Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#73853: 31.0.50; and-let* is useless Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2024 11:38:01 +0800 Message-ID: <87froszrs6.fsf@melete.silentflame.com> References: <87a5f2xir8.fsf@web.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="31002"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Cc: Michael Heerdegen , monnier@iro.umontreal.ca To: 73853@debbugs.gnu.org Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Oct 19 05:39:15 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1t20J8-0007vJ-2V for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 19 Oct 2024 05:39:14 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1t20Ih-0004To-OT; Fri, 18 Oct 2024 23:38:47 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1t20Ig-0004Tg-PT for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 18 Oct 2024 23:38:46 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:5::43]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1t20IZ-0003Mm-KE for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 18 Oct 2024 23:38:46 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=debbugs.gnu.org; s=debbugs-gnu-org; h=MIME-Version:Date:References:In-Reply-To:From:To:Subject; bh=sd3hBmQAGIn/Z4fDo8AKi+tHV9HPThCeh0hCq/YT3Pg=; b=XIFDYxu1d9CfCCeYahxAnjxfHIZTayb8BVOgV5hIqY61zd5aitvNw5uCRlBhJ/uds/vDO3Cv2v+i5GhTcKmUeat0c+UAR+uNMp2nXMq6jmK+wG8xBuSyClAVHh6BUqtQn6u1UqwIIchg0QEQVoYPV1XYYLv9qux6maie7SKGHCr9+8o1k9Uhgh6RVDzRFEjeAb2/hWfxIJ9U/+88g/xSFso6F+8TEXqMPpBaXRHWib+kywL3BMp6dEOi0SdrozeiYxeypl2v3T9ss4OTg7Ni4VrGTrsH09PkCOL3WFkMg+3L+z1Zh3rS5OvqjCkR1bvReBLXJFGQUp9b4qysCCh4Bg==; Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1t20Iw-0005gy-AV for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 18 Oct 2024 23:39:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Sean Whitton Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2024 03:39:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 73853 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs Original-Received: via spool by 73853-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B73853.172930912021848 (code B ref 73853); Sat, 19 Oct 2024 03:39:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 73853) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 Oct 2024 03:38:40 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40754 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1t20IZ-0005gI-RA for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 18 Oct 2024 23:38:40 -0400 Original-Received: from sendmail.purelymail.com ([34.202.193.197]:49772) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1t20IX-0005g4-EM for 73853@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 18 Oct 2024 23:38:38 -0400 DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha256; b=M7mFzjgMaNzwayEN/QCFeLRZn2E+NvYNY+sr4nSjGRj21J/cx9wZizn2iL2jhm8qlgojLwcQzz4pCYQEWxSEOY+QDdAL0CfB3Fxstzwn5ku6RoO+wXuadgHo4xWkUVbvZpIWrMc4wlFYvfDiXC7SsTmX0k524SMrMxV1muGsBUg8rwVYjTWRi2UXORmyHMaCWSVUIOL1CAUXGYx1GKJfQ6M/SVEuxSXmG0SInNQcG+Prg96HMDTX3ELr64d9uchCMFuO7pmJh2vXUe0T8Ur6lL82fOMdxS6xpH0BxvfiFA2Za2MTptDAkVbuBCzFPg21lbLK5pC6sCP8FvEt5jsi/w==; s=purelymail1; d=spwhitton.name; v=1; bh=5Zf/DuoYZbX56SB0n9F5LUyUmaaZffBFoHJFJA4i3qc=; h=Received:Received:From:To:Subject:Date; DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha256; b=k75OasLMh4nguvbXt2QVwZU5I54DtsqcZ2t3CLDuRJChSE/MjNL+pSu0fIkUG4E71KM8SeEqEsAKaR9xJgZLM3zR9YwA6TH1SgICyDOuScJ9YVKAkoDYPjmlQtSJq3XwYJZu3MIExXW0dB1g/wSLOwOIab+OXZk1920loPTaz7jsZI7qpU0D5J6CJNIYdUD4SrV9kM2Kw1aBAPRwxPJrxd5MUVApuYewM9ifITC5xYwwU4uLfUnqtoRFbMyKu4RsiX7SAjdcOo5FuwKmER5QL0qK5J1TtnEpvkTRNgc0h2Sx354MkEPPH3IZY0kRnL+I5+5RIO3d1WMgvpdsmoDiiw==; s=purelymail1; d=purelymail.com; v=1; bh=5Zf/DuoYZbX56SB0n9F5LUyUmaaZffBFoHJFJA4i3qc=; h=Feedback-ID:Received:Received:From:To:Subject:Date; Feedback-ID: 20115:3760:null:purelymail X-Pm-Original-To: 73853@debbugs.gnu.org Original-Received: by smtp.purelymail.com (Purelymail SMTP) with ESMTPSA id -2082500998; (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384); Sat, 19 Oct 2024 03:38:05 +0000 (UTC) Original-Received: by melete.silentflame.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 320DA7E6817; Sat, 19 Oct 2024 11:38:01 +0800 (CST) In-Reply-To: <87a5f2xir8.fsf@web.de> (Michael Heerdegen via's message of "Fri, 18 Oct 2024 04:11:23 +0200") X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:293826 Archived-At: Hello, On Fri 18 Oct 2024 at 04:11am +02, Michael Heerdegen via "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" wrote: > `and-let*'s purpose is to express conditions, `when-let*'s is > conditional evaluation. We have `and-let*' and `when-let*' for the > same reason we have `and' and `when'. See prior discussions. Right. The Lisp convention of using `when' for pure control flow and `and' for returning values is a good aid to readability. If we don't have and-let*, then we can't use this convention in the case that we also want to bind variables. So, I am very keen for and-let* to remain. >> [ I think we have too many (if|when|and)-let(*) for our own good: we >> should pick some winners and deprecate the other ones. ] > > AFAIR the non-star versions exist for backward compatibility only - so > I would rather get rid of these. Parallel existence of these non-star > vs. star versions should be a temporary state, it complicates the > matter for an epsilon gain. Yes. I would like us to move forward with removing the non-star ones. I believe there was a previous attempt to deprecate them but it had to be backed out. But maybe now is the time to try again. -- Sean Whitton