From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: =?UTF-8?Q?=E7=A9=8D=E4=B8=B9=E5=B0=BC?= Dan Jacobson Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#38696: "If you edit it by hand, you could mess it up" Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2019 08:02:23 +0800 Message-ID: <87eewyr1f4.8.fsf@jidanni.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: blaine.gmane.org; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:195.159.176.226"; logging-data="244731"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@blaine.gmane.org" Cc: rms@gnu.org To: 38696@debbugs.gnu.org Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Dec 21 02:07:20 2019 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1iiTEl-0011Xi-Ea for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 21 Dec 2019 02:07:20 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:35742 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1iiTEk-0000ye-1f for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 20 Dec 2019 20:07:18 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:37983) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1iiTBd-0004VO-Tz for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 20 Dec 2019 20:04:07 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iiTBc-0004Bz-O3 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 20 Dec 2019 20:04:05 -0500 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]:41493) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iiTBa-00040A-J7; Fri, 20 Dec 2019 20:04:02 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iiTBa-0005nF-9F; Fri, 20 Dec 2019 20:04:02 -0500 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: =?UTF-8?Q?=E7=A9=8D=E4=B8=B9=E5=B0=BC?= Dan Jacobson Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: rms@gnu.org, bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2019 01:04:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: report 38696 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-Debbugs-Original-To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Debbugs-Original-Xcc: rms@gnu.org Original-Received: via spool by submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B.157689018722199 (code B ref -1); Sat, 21 Dec 2019 01:04:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Dec 2019 01:03:07 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47466 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iiTAh-0005lz-E7 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 20 Dec 2019 20:03:07 -0500 Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:50724) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iiTAg-0005ls-CW for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 20 Dec 2019 20:03:06 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:59797) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1iiTAe-0002wj-Rt for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 20 Dec 2019 20:03:05 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iiTAc-0007zO-F2 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 20 Dec 2019 20:03:04 -0500 Original-Received: from cheetah.birch.relay.mailchannels.net ([23.83.209.34]:52677) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iiTAb-0007kt-PN for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 20 Dec 2019 20:03:02 -0500 X-Sender-Id: dreamhost|x-authsender|jidanni@jidanni.org Original-Received: from relay.mailchannels.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F4CF580CFF for ; Sat, 21 Dec 2019 01:02:59 +0000 (UTC) Original-Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a55.g.dreamhost.com (100-96-83-39.trex.outbound.svc.cluster.local [100.96.83.39]) (Authenticated sender: dreamhost) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id D0B20580900 for ; Sat, 21 Dec 2019 01:02:58 +0000 (UTC) X-Sender-Id: dreamhost|x-authsender|jidanni@jidanni.org Original-Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a55.g.dreamhost.com ([TEMPUNAVAIL]. [64.90.62.162]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384) by 0.0.0.0:2500 (trex/5.18.5); Sat, 21 Dec 2019 01:02:59 +0000 X-MC-Relay: Neutral X-MailChannels-SenderId: dreamhost|x-authsender|jidanni@jidanni.org X-MailChannels-Auth-Id: dreamhost X-Harmony-Keen: 1e5beaef0cd51a07_1576890179061_430835781 X-MC-Loop-Signature: 1576890179061:2009894018 X-MC-Ingress-Time: 1576890179061 Original-Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a55.g.dreamhost.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pdx1-sub0-mail-a55.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 878A47F521 for ; Fri, 20 Dec 2019 17:02:53 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=jidanni.org; h=from:to :subject:date:message-id:mime-version:content-type; s= jidanni.org; bh=tHtS8OT+DVQdSLIldoXome/lWmA=; b=bS9vLIn8j1SDt8wB x0pmik6SbzTJSP6/2x1YnbVCtJTpNdcLsW8xqm7UyRLOE0cQ6mUPLnSe3WV02zCf am1cXJMVTclh0m9e4XIeGvIPeDbzIUvTAiHM0lUK36DwaGnwh/Hrg4yAwq5EKv39 0hnGYcktBQehHorFLERQCIBvYAA= Original-Received: from jidanni.org (1-170-82-239.dynamic-ip.hinet.net [1.170.82.239]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: jidanni@jidanni.org) by pdx1-sub0-mail-a55.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 2CEF27F520 for ; Fri, 20 Dec 2019 17:02:52 -0800 (PST) X-DH-BACKEND: pdx1-sub0-mail-a55 X-VR-OUT-STATUS: OK X-VR-OUT-SCORE: 0 X-VR-OUT-SPAMCAUSE: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedufedrvddugedgvdehucetufdoteggodetrfdotffvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuggftfghnshhusghstghrihgsvgdpffftgfetoffjqffuvfenuceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucenucfjughrpefhvffufffkgggtsehttdertddttdejnecuhfhrohhmpejnnjjnucffrghnucflrggtohgsshhonhcuoehjihgurghnnhhisehjihgurghnnhhirdhorhhgqeenucfkphepuddrudejtddrkedvrddvfeelnecurfgrrhgrmhepmhhouggvpehsmhhtphdphhgvlhhopehjihgurghnnhhirdhorhhgpdhinhgvthepuddrudejtddrkedvrddvfeelpdhrvghtuhhrnhdqphgrthhhpeeprehuthhfqdekreeureehiehmpfehnfhiheehsgevkeerpecuffgrnhculfgrtghosghsohhnuceojhhiuggrnhhnihesjhhiuggrnhhnihdrohhrgheqpdhmrghilhhfrhhomhepjhhiuggrnhhnihesjhhiuggrnhhnihdrohhrghdpnhhrtghpthhtohepsghughdqghhnuhdqvghmrggtshesghhnuhdrohhrghenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedt X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 209.51.188.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:173589 Archived-At: Here's a problem that I think illustrates a departure from Dr. Stallman's original goals (which include to keep the user "in the know", "in control.") Let's say the user wants to make the font bigger. In emacs he goes into the menu bar and picks "Options" > "Set Default Font", makes it bigger, and then chooses "Save Options", which pastes some "custom-set" code into his .emacs file that even contains a warning "If you edit it by hand, you could mess it up", meaning for the rest of his life he should just play it safe and stick with the menus. It might as well just paste some compiled bytecode in there. There isn't even any good old fashioned setq versions the user could learn with and expand left around in any temporary buffer. Nor is there any decompiler command provided.