From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Petteri Hintsanen Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#61325: 30.0.50; Jokes in GNUS manual Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2023 15:59:39 +0200 Message-ID: <87edqn6pmc.fsf@iki.fi> References: <87ttzy7pg1.fsf@localhost> <83sffipxn8.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="4043"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.2 (gnu/linux) To: 61325@debbugs.gnu.org Cancel-Lock: sha1:qiZIFysJkaDHNJD37nRc+Gnf9RQ= Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Feb 18 17:22:27 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1pTPyk-0000or-0E for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 18 Feb 2023 17:22:26 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pTPyT-0002sr-BP; Sat, 18 Feb 2023 11:22:09 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pTPyN-0002sW-DN for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 18 Feb 2023 11:22:03 -0500 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pTPyM-0002P0-Uk for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 18 Feb 2023 11:22:02 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pTPyM-0002wo-PO for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 18 Feb 2023 11:22:02 -0500 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org In-Reply-To: <87ttzy7pg1.fsf@localhost> Resent-From: Petteri Hintsanen Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2023 16:22:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 61325 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-Debbugs-Original-To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-Received: via spool by submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B.167673728111268 (code B ref -1); Sat, 18 Feb 2023 16:22:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 18 Feb 2023 16:21:21 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44765 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pTPxh-0002vb-6Y for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 18 Feb 2023 11:21:21 -0500 Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:56990) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pTNps-0007Vl-4F for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 18 Feb 2023 09:05:13 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pTNpr-0003df-Nd for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 18 Feb 2023 09:05:07 -0500 Original-Received: from ciao.gmane.io ([116.202.254.214]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pTNpp-0002PF-UD for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 18 Feb 2023 09:05:07 -0500 Original-Received: from list by ciao.gmane.io with local (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1pTNpl-0004bB-V8 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 18 Feb 2023 15:05:01 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Received-SPF: pass client-ip=116.202.254.214; envelope-from=geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; helo=ciao.gmane.io X-Spam_score_int: -15 X-Spam_score: -1.6 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.6 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.25, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sat, 18 Feb 2023 11:21:19 -0500 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:255970 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: > It's a losing battle, but: every joke makes someone uncomfortable. > The only way of making no one uncomfortable is to never joke, and what > a sad world would that be! (Come to think about, the only way to > never make someone uncomfortable is to say nothing at all.) I tend to agree here. Looking at the big picture, Gnus manual is full of jokes, irony, self-deprecation, and other literary devices. It is a losing battle to try to somehow clean it up by cutting some, possibly objectionable or confusing, thorns. The manual is full of them. The whole manual should be rewritten, if one wants to have it written in "neutral" style -- whatever that would be. For the sake of argument, let's say that "without literary gimmicks of any kind." I _personally_ find the current Gnus manual a creative work that clearly reflects its author's personality, which I consider a benefit. For me the manual is mostly amusing, occasionally annoying, and, at some points, downright hilarious, like the completely out of scope "note" about hazy trance. OTOH, I like Lars' writing style and his sense of humor. I understand others may not. It's okay, we are different. As for adjusting the tone of the current manual, I don't see much return of investment. That energy would be better spent elsewhere. I'd leave the current manual as-is. Thanks, Petteri