From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Michael Heerdegen Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#66706: [PATCH] Automatic elisp dialect insertion Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2023 02:31:57 +0200 Message-ID: <87edhicjgi.fsf@web.de> References: <17C83052-7946-45DE-B660-DA7EB82001B0@gmail.com> <83sf61mb54.fsf@gnu.org> <98CD592C-0E82-4795-8168-2B5E597FF7A7@gmail.com> <8334xzlvy9.fsf@gnu.org> <83v8avjuv8.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="26399"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Cc: Eli Zaretskii , 66706@debbugs.gnu.org, mattias.engdegard@gmail.com, Stefan Kangas , monnier@iro.umontreal.ca To: Dmitry Gutov Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Oct 26 02:40:00 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1qvoPn-0006bA-Fs for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; 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Thu, 26 Oct 2023 02:31:49 +0200 In-Reply-To: (Dmitry Gutov's message of "Wed, 25 Oct 2023 15:54:55 +0300") X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:Hpy2c/z79hkKoJVLf6evo8C9xAfCMW4zkPjbLwlmsVQTD8fPR6f U3Co3iUOpczWjKJ7E01/sBKKcfMAsHayEzUdEFB+P7YUdlmbbBc+U6dSJO2fs4TDbWVQfFT mSehuYe50fHjYepAXqf6RjTTnazft+dgXZyihzL2xPM7elGJfmpuTT10nizBebPzwSDbuHM 8awe7UM6+FoSAC9oJ/VPw== UI-OutboundReport: notjunk:1;M01:P0:amaaHYnniFM=;0Q4tDE9DdbVpbqSXBJRakoIdnjj DBzFylmDUgzWvEWGdNEMAEmgDocd1HEv/vnRKDf0B0YnFfMYRoa3yZG61vqvOKv0k3/errlhL dEgwcYJ0aPug0MM1RT3MM6/6U/96uaRIe02NHypw2NesLTKADnp8sTiiMnmVhwEpYVL3CSzFk C5QDXEvCjb4nIfcsKZXINjYaGVoRbzqwAerCqfiKYtT7MCQ6IrJuJo3qeBdIi1UMjnHhm14Tw kE2ib3Ecjcyp9Zt80zX5R1eL7dMS+RqtRjyOVPjhBHFnEY683z8+y+AhE8G/ssRTPp/tnirKG 8NMD/TtCrC7drUkT8VWMfeWgfz1eNQUmtoYic78GkFmH86qHwZpU+0FnL3sGtaojh9XglzStu bT40CwOXc0kMGZjuGLJo0/xP3hr05aOWViquV03CEmNcACURtI2IYZSG4jqdX+kHlir9p0TSl yx6YJRnBfOBFCECyU6qA1z6F2hRJ+7aA9bru4K1cUQPcoRD0ZQJ9B9tkDcjrM5GpQqe2Vq/zB 8jMUqs0OKPhw52NqhwvOwwTHzJprgwd5XyR1I7RY78C9cQSZuyzQaZO8SgQ/2TXv/u1Qz+IbP +dBHpXTrOpozIhIb+e8eniut7wOotPne2XouNo1/hmdv5NCKWjELB98h06rdYvzryNgnaNXQ0 7KGmTE8+nhVoz5m6D5YrS52FezJN8540azBONxeTUIW0xYOB6IwdAInYd+Z1k1TkZ4Wrp2kgB FNMLOWbjurutMue5TOo5VPjTWqrcjAUjMnl0nyoGZouxahm9WX333a3FYEGl42y0nTwF5QZa X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:273226 Archived-At: Dmitry Gutov writes: > There will be such users, but their number will likely be lower than > some might expect, simply because the lexical dialect very much > resembles how programs are written in other languages these days. Short version of my reply: Emacs users are a different group than Elisp package developers. Let's help them by forcing a lexical binding cookie in the config file instead of simply making their Emacs potentially not starting up. Long version: I guess most new users have not read much of the Emacs manual before trying Emacs and starting a user config file. Most of them will not have started their config file using a lexical-binding:t cookie. That means: Most new users started their learning experience of Elisp using the dynamical dialect. Since Lisp is not that widespread, not all Emacs users are programmers, and not all programmers take the time to care about such a detail as long as the tool works, I would think that the numbers of users which will see a broken config would be higher than you expect. And a lot of them will not know immediately how to fix it, because this might make not so trivial changes necessary. Without having their tool at hand. Not cool. This would be an unfriendly and annoying thing we would do to some users. Especially when Emacs is still perfectly able to interpret the file. I really hope we find a different way. We could temporarily make a cookie mandatory for user config files, and make Emacs barf at startup if a cookie missing (or ask about what to do: insert the cookie for you, ask which dialect to use for this time), but still use dynamical binding at least for a few releases so that Emacs will still start up, instead of forcing lexical-binding interpretation on a file that has only ever been interpreted using dynamical binding in the past. Michael.