From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Ihor Radchenko Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#61325: 30.0.50; Jokes in GNUS manual Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2023 13:48:17 +0000 Message-ID: <87cz5kfza6.fsf@localhost> References: <87ttzy7pg1.fsf@localhost> <87wn4u6xj0.fsf@yahoo.com> <873577570z.fsf@localhost> <875yc2s89n.fsf@yahoo.com> <87h6vkbgot.fsf@localhost> <87mt5aj626.fsf@localhost> <87cz65hkk1.fsf@yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="7024"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: luangruo@yahoo.com, Gregory Heytings , stefankangas@gmail.com, 61325@debbugs.gnu.org To: Richard Stallman Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Mar 07 14:48:39 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1pZXgE-0001bk-2X for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 07 Mar 2023 14:48:38 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pZXfk-0001GT-An; Tue, 07 Mar 2023 08:48:08 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pZXfe-0001F8-VL for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 07 Mar 2023 08:48:06 -0500 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pZXfe-00071y-NK for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 07 Mar 2023 08:48:02 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pZXfe-0003u4-CV for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 07 Mar 2023 08:48:02 -0500 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Ihor Radchenko Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2023 13:48:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 61325 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs Original-Received: via spool by 61325-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B61325.167819682814785 (code B ref 61325); Tue, 07 Mar 2023 13:48:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 61325) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Mar 2023 13:47:08 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44842 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pZXel-0003qP-MI for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 07 Mar 2023 08:47:08 -0500 Original-Received: from mout01.posteo.de ([185.67.36.65]:42919) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pZXej-0003px-GM for 61325@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 07 Mar 2023 08:47:06 -0500 Original-Received: from submission (posteo.de [185.67.36.169]) by mout01.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A79972404E5 for <61325@debbugs.gnu.org>; Tue, 7 Mar 2023 14:46:57 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1678196819; bh=DpTYO1JQEZfks1cWVqWAi+mnABl8MSUcatjWgsGvI9w=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:From; b=GkTuR+cWGeUx+1QOK6J1J6P1gr6BnSdyTSI7oooM43OF0krZSUWrKhQ6bf+klxI6D fyM9Rs7Q3IZhr/gbolNfLQ0UleuCWzxl7DCWyOMGl/aRk5vBzPce489tOvGHO/7s7N JYfrYdk0etH8AJ3Vt/LFilIAgsXuVhVWocA/LLj3/PTvc3pNFhKrt6UDg6GbRu38We +UbTsgA7ipiSQOO9nTPCsuV4fkm87ursMuXBtNNVYcLypKGepuGB/hwXz40exhD4cc JvdprNhfa6FNFEg2zRPFbS9K5cm+ocaaj742HMSBC63ZHF0f1DkH7iDwCQ6Ldfrv3o Mbvb+QBk+bljg== Original-Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4PWGvh3h44z6tpW; Tue, 7 Mar 2023 14:46:56 +0100 (CET) In-Reply-To: X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:257456 Archived-At: Richard Stallman writes: > I think that when I wrote the Kind Communication Guidelines, I was > thinking about discussions (like this one). It asks people to try to > avoid offending anyone else in the discussion. That is a limited set > of people to be considerate of. Good point. I agree that it is meaningless if we aim to cater every possible potential reader of the manual. > When the same points are applied to a book, which is published, there > is a problem: anyone might read the book. So it can be interpreted as > saying that the author should make sure not to offend anyone > whosoever. That implies that every demand for censorship should be > catered to. > > That is not a good outcome, and not what I intended. > > It looks like I will have to think more about this. I am re-reading the GNU-provided information for maintainers on jokes (https://www.gnu.org/prep/maintain/maintain.html#Humor) and I note the following paragraph: There are people who frown on anything that is slightly risqu=C3=A9 or controversial, including jokes. It would be a terrible shame for that attitude to prevail, so our policy is that the occasional risqu=C3=A9 joke is ok. GNU is a 21st century project, not a 19th. AFAIU, this implies that even occasional jokes about controversial or culturally-sensitive topics, like sex should be OK to have. The problem with Gnus manual though is that the number of jokes in it is huge. And it appears that jokes involving sensitive topics are not occasional. So far, the discussion on this thread revolved around all-or-nothing approach with people often treating this bug report as either a demand to remove all the jokes or a demand to remove all the sensitive jokes. Originally, I was aiming to handle only the jokes I listed with an idea in mind to apply the same approach for all other sensitive jokes. >From my current understanding of the "14 Humor and GNU" section, it will be incorrect to try removing every single "risky" joke. Though I do not see why replacing the risky topics with more neutral would hurt, given that the quality of a joke being changed does not degrade. What is not clear for me is the word "occasional". How many jokes are considered occasional? I think that it is something worth clarifying in https://www.gnu.org/prep/maintain/maintain.html#Humor --=20 Ihor Radchenko // yantar92, Org mode contributor, Learn more about Org mode at . Support Org development at , or support my work at