From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Philip Kaludercic Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#62720: 29.0.60; Not easy at all to upgrade :core packages like Eglot Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2023 18:27:22 +0000 Message-ID: <87cz46pbed.fsf@posteo.net> References: <87a5zj2vfo.fsf@gmail.com> <87wn2gkhzr.fsf@posteo.net> <83cz485oxi.fsf@gnu.org> <87leiwdyff.fsf@posteo.net> <834jpk5hih.fsf@gnu.org> <871qkom3fj.fsf@posteo.net> <83mt3b4yfc.fsf@gnu.org> <87edonlsxi.fsf@posteo.net> <83jzyf4vzb.fsf@gnu.org> <871qknllkj.fsf@posteo.net> <83fs934pjf.fsf@gnu.org> <87wn2fk47y.fsf@posteo.net> <83sfd2g2ek.fsf@gnu.org> <875y9yfxrr.fsf@gmail.com> <87y1muefks.fsf@gmail.com> <87leiupfps.fsf@posteo.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="30873"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: 62720@debbugs.gnu.org, Robert Pluim , Dmitry Gutov , monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, larsi@gnus.org, Eli Zaretskii To: =?UTF-8?Q?Jo=C3=A3o_?= =?UTF-8?Q?T=C3=A1vora?= Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Apr 14 20:28:26 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1pnO9p-0007o9-6q for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 14 Apr 2023 20:28:25 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pnO9Y-0000Ie-SG; Fri, 14 Apr 2023 14:28:08 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pnO9S-0000GS-C0 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 14 Apr 2023 14:28:02 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pnO9S-00010T-2D for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 14 Apr 2023 14:28:02 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pnO9R-0006Gk-M6 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 14 Apr 2023 14:28:01 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Philip Kaludercic Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2023 18:28:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 62720 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs Original-Received: via spool by 62720-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B62720.168149682424011 (code B ref 62720); Fri, 14 Apr 2023 18:28:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at 62720) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Apr 2023 18:27:04 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47599 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pnO8V-0006FC-O7 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 14 Apr 2023 14:27:04 -0400 Original-Received: from mout01.posteo.de ([185.67.36.65]:48625) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pnO8S-0006Eg-Ed for 62720@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 14 Apr 2023 14:27:01 -0400 Original-Received: from submission (posteo.de [185.67.36.169]) by mout01.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 54A1D240234 for <62720@debbugs.gnu.org>; Fri, 14 Apr 2023 20:26:54 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1681496814; bh=fIffgB6hQhNvc2EqkyQlO9AkiGhU2kSe25XXQJuAs1Q=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Autocrypt:Date:From; b=VEdSj46vNOL5O+m1/oTDWDR42dWj5tcl9HSoa6x5/+UtmDxZfLKDRBxN2s0ugEkDk zC55r6NDaMKaW5vH43e0VlGAknLNCHVW2e5i9Bd2BkR1anu2iBnIP5mtxBx+tSt0/J UBuLggm84bi8OWORplWe0MLwoJlT049oeprvIGqb8ESciHxgble1Xi3eQI25mLKr7V ySJi4+2de57CelO39hGLtczQB85210Stwd+0kMPsyoOPxJ92FKZtPXVNCBVJ2blLGv 4HNGXS5AjkZF1hD4RFSj16wLKA755gJCPOGgT0gYjQzJkEHusmK7PUSycsxIqP9TcX MHbVzZZlw1fdA== Original-Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4PylK91QG6z6tsg; Fri, 14 Apr 2023 20:26:52 +0200 (CEST) In-Reply-To: ("=?UTF-8?Q?Jo=C3=A3o_?= =?UTF-8?Q?T=C3=A1vora?="'s message of "Fri, 14 Apr 2023 18:32:42 +0100") Autocrypt: addr=philipk@posteo.net; keydata= mDMEZBBQQhYJKwYBBAHaRw8BAQdAHJuofBrfqFh12uQu0Yi7mrl525F28eTmwUDflFNmdui0QlBo aWxpcCBLYWx1ZGVyY2ljIChnZW5lcmF0ZWQgYnkgYXV0b2NyeXB0LmVsKSA8cGhpbGlwa0Bwb3N0 ZW8ubmV0PoiWBBMWCAA+FiEEDg7HY17ghYlni8XN8xYDWXahwukFAmQQUEICGwMFCQHhM4AFCwkI BwIGFQoJCAsCBBYCAwECHgECF4AACgkQ8xYDWXahwulikAEA77hloUiSrXgFkUVJhlKBpLCHUjA0 mWZ9j9w5d08+jVwBAK6c4iGP7j+/PhbkxaEKa4V3MzIl7zJkcNNjHCXmvFcEuDgEZBBQQhIKKwYB BAGXVQEFAQEHQI5NLiLRjZy3OfSt1dhCmFyn+fN/QKELUYQetiaoe+MMAwEIB4h+BBgWCAAmFiEE Dg7HY17ghYlni8XN8xYDWXahwukFAmQQUEICGwwFCQHhM4AACgkQ8xYDWXahwukm+wEA8cml4JpK NeAu65rg+auKrPOP6TP/4YWRCTIvuYDm0joBALw98AMz7/qMHvSCeU/hw9PL6u6R2EScxtpKnWof z4oM X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:259954 Archived-At: Jo=C3=A3o T=C3=A1vora writes: > On Fri, Apr 14, 2023 at 5:53=E2=80=AFPM Philip Kaludercic wrote: > >> As this issue only affects Eglot > > [Didn't other packages also make it into :core?] I made a mistake in assuming that the rest are non-user facing libraries, but there also is use-package. But since that is also a slower package, I don't think this is an emergency. >> (a package that doesn't require that >> much customisation to be used), I don't think the situation is as >> drastic as you are portraying it to be. > >> If we all try to have a cooperative, non-alarmist attitude towards >> solving the issue at hand, I am sure a suitable solution will be found. > > It's true it doesn't have many customization now, so downright > erroring is probably rare. But it's been advancing fast and > that may not always be the case. As I said Eglot 1.12 in Emacs > 29 has lots of missing functionality and even bugs that are too > risky to fix in that version. > > So I'm not being alarmist, I think. With 5 years maintainership > of this package and well over 1000 issues, I think I make a fair > assessment of user's expectations. As to being cooperative, I've > proposed 3 different patches already, answered every question about > them and proposed n other solutions. > > But I like your optimism nonetheless :-) It follows from my experience. >> Also keep in mind that I have proposed multiple patches that take >> difference approaches. Perhaps it would be of use to recapitulate them, >> and you can explain which would be satisfying and which you think >> wouldn't be as helpful: >> >> - Use `package-install' to switch from a built-in package to the version >> from ELPA >> >> - Alternatively it has to be confirmed using a prefix argument >> - Alternatively it has to be enabled using a user option >> >> - Use `package-update' (not `package-update-all') to switch from a >> built-in package to the version from ELPA >> >> (Same alternatives as above) >> >> - Have both `package-update' and `package-update-all' switch potentially >> all packages from built-in versions to ELPA versions >> >> (Same alternatives as above) >> >> - Provide a separate command to switch from a built-in version to a >> version from ELPA >> >> That should be it? > > If it's not clear yet, I want(ed) something that users can use > _regardless_ of the version of Emacs to bring Eglot to the > latest version. I want users to be able to do this easily > for obvious reasons. The prime candidate for that "something" > is M-x package-install both in its command and non-interactive > form. But if that isn't possible, the next best thing is > a 4 line eglot-update command in eglot.el which would eventually > boil down to the same (because Emacs 26/27/28 users would eventually > also get it). That idea was explicitly rejected, but I hope it > illustrates what I would prefer. > > A command and function with enduring semantics, basically, the > kind you expect from a system like Emacs. > > Any one of your or other's solutions that provide such a > command/function are most welcome. Any other that doesn', > I'm indifferent to it. Which doesn't mean "against" or "hostile". > > And of course I thank you very much for your efforts in searching > for a solution. > > Here's another solution you may want to consider. package-install > in Emacs 29 updates built-ins non-interactively always. Interactively > asks the user with a confirmation prompt. This solution would > also work. What would the confirmation prompt ask the user? > Here's yet another one. package-install like the above but, as has > been proposed, carefully vets the builtins that are subject to > from a controlled whitelist, which would include Eglot. Stefan, Dmitry > and myself have proposed some variation of this. > > Anyway, if my preference doesn't materialize, I'm going to recommend > in the manual: > > M-: (package-install (alist-get 'eglot package-archive-contents)) RET Are you sure? The `alist-get' call returns a list, since `package-archive-contents' is a map of package names to a list of package descriptors. > which works interactively and non-interactively in every version > of Emacs. It's not pretty but it's the best I have. It's better > than to write "if you have emacs 29, do this, else do that". > > Jo=C3=A3o