* bug#27933: emacs25: default info dir initialization slow with remote filesystems [not found] <20150524155316.28851.58585.reportbug@tack.local> @ 2017-08-03 13:59 ` Rob Browning 2017-08-03 15:29 ` Glenn Morris 0 siblings, 1 reply; 16+ messages in thread From: Rob Browning @ 2017-08-03 13:59 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 27933; +Cc: 786707, 786707-forwarded, Steve McIntyre [If possible please preserve the 786707-forwarded@bugs.debian.org in replies] It appears that when remote filesystems are involved, the probing to initialize Info-default-directory-alist can be time consuming, even if an INFOPATH has been specified. This was reported as http://bugs.debian.org/786707, and additional details are available there. Thanks -- Rob Browning rlb @defaultvalue.org and @debian.org GPG as of 2011-07-10 E6A9 DA3C C9FD 1FF8 C676 D2C4 C0F0 39E9 ED1B 597A GPG as of 2002-11-03 14DD 432F AE39 534D B592 F9A0 25C8 D377 8C7E 73A4 ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
* bug#27933: emacs25: default info dir initialization slow with remote filesystems 2017-08-03 13:59 ` bug#27933: emacs25: default info dir initialization slow with remote filesystems Rob Browning @ 2017-08-03 15:29 ` Glenn Morris 2017-08-03 16:39 ` Steve McIntyre 0 siblings, 1 reply; 16+ messages in thread From: Glenn Morris @ 2017-08-03 15:29 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Rob Browning; +Cc: 27933, 786707, 786707-forwarded, Steve McIntyre Presumably this is less bad since some changes in Emacs master. See 8ff9c4109fd and 2a2c6ee8d18. http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-diffs/2016-05/msg00336.html http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-diffs/2016-05/msg00338.html ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
* bug#27933: emacs25: default info dir initialization slow with remote filesystems 2017-08-03 15:29 ` Glenn Morris @ 2017-08-03 16:39 ` Steve McIntyre 2017-08-03 16:41 ` Glenn Morris 0 siblings, 1 reply; 16+ messages in thread From: Steve McIntyre @ 2017-08-03 16:39 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Glenn Morris; +Cc: 27933, 786707, Rob Browning, 786707-forwarded On Thu, Aug 03, 2017 at 11:29:52AM -0400, Glenn Morris wrote: > >Presumably this is less bad since some changes in Emacs master. >See 8ff9c4109fd and 2a2c6ee8d18. > >http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-diffs/2016-05/msg00336.html >http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-diffs/2016-05/msg00338.html Hi Glenn, I've checked yesterday using emacs25 (version 25.1+1-4 in Debian stretch). I guess those changes didn't make it in before that release - the second diff you've linked is exactly the trivial change I've been using locally to solve the problem for me... :-) -- Steve McIntyre, Cambridge, UK. steve@einval.com "I can't ever sleep on planes ... call it irrational if you like, but I'm afraid I'll miss my stop" -- Vivek Das Mohapatra ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
* bug#27933: emacs25: default info dir initialization slow with remote filesystems 2017-08-03 16:39 ` Steve McIntyre @ 2017-08-03 16:41 ` Glenn Morris 2017-08-03 16:49 ` Steve McIntyre [not found] ` <20170803164913.wkuvwws3ry4l4ofy@tack.einval.com> 0 siblings, 2 replies; 16+ messages in thread From: Glenn Morris @ 2017-08-03 16:41 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Steve McIntyre; +Cc: 27933, 786707, Rob Browning, 786707-forwarded Steve McIntyre wrote: > I've checked yesterday using emacs25 (version 25.1+1-4 in Debian > stretch). I guess those changes didn't make it in before that release Indeed not. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
* bug#27933: emacs25: default info dir initialization slow with remote filesystems 2017-08-03 16:41 ` Glenn Morris @ 2017-08-03 16:49 ` Steve McIntyre [not found] ` <20170803164913.wkuvwws3ry4l4ofy@tack.einval.com> 1 sibling, 0 replies; 16+ messages in thread From: Steve McIntyre @ 2017-08-03 16:49 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Glenn Morris; +Cc: 27933, 786707, Rob Browning, 786707-forwarded On Thu, Aug 03, 2017 at 12:41:48PM -0400, Glenn Morris wrote: >Steve McIntyre wrote: > >> I've checked yesterday using emacs25 (version 25.1+1-4 in Debian >> stretch). I guess those changes didn't make it in before that release > >Indeed not. OK, cool - thanks for clarifying! So, I am still curious about a couple of points from my initial bug report. Maybe you can help with those too? >2. Why on earth is emacs checking the info path at all on startup? > Shouldn't it wait until info functions are actually called for? > >3. The documentation talks about setting INFOPATH in the environment > to over-ride the use of this default directory list, but again > using strace I can see no change to behaviour here at all if I set > INFOPATH -- Steve McIntyre, Cambridge, UK. steve@einval.com "Arguing that you don't care about the right to privacy because you have nothing to hide is no different than saying you don't care about free speech because you have nothing to say." -- Edward Snowden ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
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* bug#27933: emacs25: default info dir initialization slow with remote filesystems [not found] ` <20170803164913.wkuvwws3ry4l4ofy@tack.einval.com> @ 2017-08-03 17:25 ` Eli Zaretskii 2017-08-03 17:35 ` Glenn Morris 0 siblings, 1 reply; 16+ messages in thread From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2017-08-03 17:25 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Steve McIntyre; +Cc: 27933, 786707, rlb, 786707-forwarded > Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2017 17:49:13 +0100 > From: Steve McIntyre <steve@einval.com> > Cc: 27933@debbugs.gnu.org, 786707@bugs.debian.org, > Rob Browning <rlb@defaultvalue.org>, 786707-forwarded@bugs.debian.org > > >2. Why on earth is emacs checking the info path at all on startup? It doesn't do that here, not in the current development sources. After I start "emacs -Q", (featurep 'info) evaluates to nil and Info-directory-list is unbound. > > Shouldn't it wait until info functions are actually called for? It should, and it does. > >3. The documentation talks about setting INFOPATH in the environment > > to over-ride the use of this default directory list, but again > > using strace I can see no change to behaviour here at all if I set > > INFOPATH My reading of the code is that if INFOPATH is set in the environment of the shell from which Emacs is started, then the value of that variable is used in preference to Info-default-directory-list. Maybe you didn't start Emacs from the shell whose environment you changed? ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
* bug#27933: emacs25: default info dir initialization slow with remote filesystems 2017-08-03 17:25 ` Eli Zaretskii @ 2017-08-03 17:35 ` Glenn Morris 2017-08-03 18:31 ` Eli Zaretskii 2022-02-03 20:04 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen 0 siblings, 2 replies; 16+ messages in thread From: Glenn Morris @ 2017-08-03 17:35 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: 27933, 786707, rlb, 786707-forwarded, Steve McIntyre Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> >2. Why on earth is emacs checking the info path at all on startup? > > It doesn't do that here, not in the current development sources. > After I start "emacs -Q", (featurep 'info) evaluates to nil and > Info-directory-list is unbound. Info-default-directory-list, which is the thing that stats the filesystem, is autoloaded. This area seems overly complicated, probably due to hysterical raisins. IIRC we've discussed it before. >> >3. The documentation talks about setting INFOPATH in the environment >> > to over-ride the use of this default directory list, but again >> > using strace I can see no change to behaviour here at all if I set >> > INFOPATH The default still gets set, just not used. You might wonder, why bother setting something that's not used... Ideally Info-default-directory-list would go away. leaving only Info-directory-list initialized in a standard fashion. But I haven't looked at the details. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
* bug#27933: emacs25: default info dir initialization slow with remote filesystems 2017-08-03 17:35 ` Glenn Morris @ 2017-08-03 18:31 ` Eli Zaretskii 2017-08-03 21:37 ` Glenn Morris 2022-02-03 20:04 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen 1 sibling, 1 reply; 16+ messages in thread From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2017-08-03 18:31 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Glenn Morris; +Cc: 27933, 786707, rlb, 786707-forwarded, steve > From: Glenn Morris <rgm@gnu.org> > Cc: Steve McIntyre <steve@einval.com>, 27933@debbugs.gnu.org, 786707@bugs.debian.org, rlb@defaultvalue.org, 786707-forwarded@bugs.debian.org > Date: Thu, 03 Aug 2017 13:35:25 -0400 > > Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > >> >2. Why on earth is emacs checking the info path at all on startup? > > > > It doesn't do that here, not in the current development sources. > > After I start "emacs -Q", (featurep 'info) evaluates to nil and > > Info-directory-list is unbound. > > Info-default-directory-list, which is the thing that stats the > filesystem, is autoloaded. But who loads it? ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
* bug#27933: emacs25: default info dir initialization slow with remote filesystems 2017-08-03 18:31 ` Eli Zaretskii @ 2017-08-03 21:37 ` Glenn Morris 0 siblings, 0 replies; 16+ messages in thread From: Glenn Morris @ 2017-08-03 21:37 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: 27933, 786707, rlb, 786707-forwarded, steve Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> Info-default-directory-list, which is the thing that stats the >> filesystem, is autoloaded. > > But who loads it? Autoloaded variables are dumped with Emacs. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
* bug#27933: emacs25: default info dir initialization slow with remote filesystems 2017-08-03 17:35 ` Glenn Morris 2017-08-03 18:31 ` Eli Zaretskii @ 2022-02-03 20:04 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen 2022-03-04 16:36 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen 1 sibling, 1 reply; 16+ messages in thread From: Lars Ingebrigtsen @ 2022-02-03 20:04 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Glenn Morris; +Cc: 786707, 27933, Steve McIntyre, 786707-forwarded, rlb Glenn Morris <rgm@gnu.org> writes: > Ideally Info-default-directory-list would go away. leaving only > Info-directory-list initialized in a standard fashion. But I haven't > looked at the details. I poked a bit at this, and it seems hard to make this work in a backwards-compatible way. The problem is that we document stuff like this to work: (add-to-list 'Info-default-directory-list "~/Info") And we compute Info-default-directory-list at startup (and it stats a bunch of directories, which is what this bug report is about). The user can therefore assume that it's been filled, and may be removing directories from it, too, so if we just initialise it (or do statting while initialising Info-directory-list), we'll be breaking people's setups. I.e., people may have (setq Info-default-directory-list (delete "/usr/share/info/" Info-default-directory-list)) in .emacs, and that won't work. But I think we should indeed fix this, because statting those directories at startup isn't ideal, but it'd be a breaking change. I propose to make Info-default-directory-list nil by default, and initialise Info-directory-alist from the directories that Info-default-directory-list would normally find, as well as Info-default-directory-list (unless INFODIR is set, and that overrides). I think the breakage for users should be pretty minimal -- it would only affect people that remove stuff from Info-default-directory-list, but not those that add to it. Any comments before I make this change? -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
* bug#27933: emacs25: default info dir initialization slow with remote filesystems 2022-02-03 20:04 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen @ 2022-03-04 16:36 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen 2022-03-14 0:57 ` Steve McIntyre [not found] ` <E1neaLG-0000XL-2e@fencepost.gnu.org> 0 siblings, 2 replies; 16+ messages in thread From: Lars Ingebrigtsen @ 2022-03-04 16:36 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Glenn Morris; +Cc: 786707, 27933, Steve McIntyre, 786707-forwarded, rlb Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes: > I think the breakage for users should be pretty minimal -- it would only > affect people that remove stuff from Info-default-directory-list, but > not those that add to it. > > Any comments before I make this change? There were no comments in a month, so I went ahead and made the change in Emacs 29. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
* bug#27933: emacs25: default info dir initialization slow with remote filesystems 2022-03-04 16:36 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen @ 2022-03-14 0:57 ` Steve McIntyre [not found] ` <E1neaLG-0000XL-2e@fencepost.gnu.org> 1 sibling, 0 replies; 16+ messages in thread From: Steve McIntyre @ 2022-03-14 0:57 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Lars Ingebrigtsen; +Cc: Glenn Morris, 786707, 27933, 786707-forwarded, rlb On Fri, Mar 04, 2022 at 05:36:38PM +0100, Lars Ingebrigtsen wrote: >Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes: > >> I think the breakage for users should be pretty minimal -- it would only >> affect people that remove stuff from Info-default-directory-list, but >> not those that add to it. >> >> Any comments before I make this change? > >There were no comments in a month, so I went ahead and made the change >in Emacs 29. Thanks for your work Lars! Cheers, Steve -- Steve McIntyre, Cambridge, UK. steve@einval.com "This dress doesn't reverse." -- Alden Spiess ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
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* bug#27933: emacs25: default info dir initialization slow with remote filesystems [not found] ` <875yndp086.fsf@gnus.org> @ 2022-04-14 6:51 ` Alfred M. Szmidt 2022-04-14 13:41 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen 0 siblings, 1 reply; 16+ messages in thread From: Alfred M. Szmidt @ 2022-04-14 6:51 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Lars Ingebrigtsen; +Cc: rgm, 786707, 27933, steve, 786707-forwarded, rlb > > Standard info does the right thing, and shows both local (those listed > > by INFOPATH) dir files, and the system ones. > > > > Reverting the change (5f7db63a93f0c670d6f88dd24f922462abce7d8c) makes > > things work as expected. > > "Alfred M. Szmidt" <ams@gnu.org> writes: > > > Sorry -- too many distractions while writing, I missed to add one > > additional (important) note. Started with -Q and then evaluating: > > > > (add-hook 'Info-mode-hook > > (lambda () > > (setq Info-additional-directory-list Info-default-directory-list))) > > > > before entering info. > > Do you need to have both INFOPATH set and this hook set to reproduce the > problem? > > Yes, exactly. The code here is pretty convoluted, but reading it, I think we just don't support doing something like that any more (since Info-default-directory-list isn't populated any more at this point). Which is why the changes here are listed under "Incompatible changes in Emacs 29.1". Yes, it is convulted. :-/ But I think the situation gets slightly more convulted with this change. Now, there is no easy way of adding back the default directories where Emacs searches. The docstring could need a touch up, mentioning how Info-default-directory-list and Info--default-directory-list work together or hint towards it. The text is slightly misleading, since the following is not really the case: This variable is used as the default for initializing `Info-default-directory-list' when Info is started, unless the environment variable INFOPATH is set. I've tried to get the same behaviour that I had, namley that of INFOPATH + Info-default-directory-list (in that order). The only thing that comes to mind is explicitly calling Info--default-directory-list to set it up; which doesn't seem very nice. (add-hook 'Info-mode-hook (lambda () (setq Info-additional-directory-list (if (fboundp 'Info--default-directory-list) (Info--default-directory-list) Info-default-directory-list)))) If one could re-do all of this, having Info-additional-directory-list be initialized to INFOPATH would have made most sense. There can be very few reasons to delete the default Emacs info directory locations, and having INFOPATH override those always seemed backwards, and not what stand-alone Info does -- so while the Emacs documentation says that one should customize INFOPATH for both, the customizations aren't really the same :-( PS. Shouldn't bugs become unarchived when someone replies to an already archived one? The discussion here is now lost in the ether... ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
* bug#27933: emacs25: default info dir initialization slow with remote filesystems 2022-04-14 6:51 ` Alfred M. Szmidt @ 2022-04-14 13:41 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen 2022-04-14 14:58 ` Drew Adams 2022-04-14 15:43 ` Glenn Morris 0 siblings, 2 replies; 16+ messages in thread From: Lars Ingebrigtsen @ 2022-04-14 13:41 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Alfred M. Szmidt; +Cc: rgm, 786707, 27933, steve, 786707-forwarded, rlb "Alfred M. Szmidt" <ams@gnu.org> writes: > I've tried to get the same behaviour that I had, namley that of > INFOPATH + Info-default-directory-list (in that order). The only > thing that comes to mind is explicitly calling > Info--default-directory-list to set it up; which doesn't seem very > nice. > > (add-hook 'Info-mode-hook > (lambda () > (setq Info-additional-directory-list > (if (fboundp 'Info--default-directory-list) > (Info--default-directory-list) > Info-default-directory-list)))) Yes, that's basically what I had in mind for people who wants both. But in that case Info--default-directory-list should probably be renamed to `Info-default-directory-list'... > If one could re-do all of this, having Info-additional-directory-list > be initialized to INFOPATH would have made most sense. There can be > very few reasons to delete the default Emacs info directory locations, > and having INFOPATH override those always seemed backwards, and not > what stand-alone Info does -- so while the Emacs documentation says > that one should customize INFOPATH for both, the customizations aren't > really the same :-( Yup. But that'd probably be even less backwards-compatible. > PS. Shouldn't bugs become unarchived when someone replies to an > already archived one? The discussion here is now lost in the ether... Indeed; it's one of the most annoying things about debbugs. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
* bug#27933: emacs25: default info dir initialization slow with remote filesystems 2022-04-14 13:41 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen @ 2022-04-14 14:58 ` Drew Adams 2022-04-14 15:43 ` Glenn Morris 1 sibling, 0 replies; 16+ messages in thread From: Drew Adams @ 2022-04-14 14:58 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Lars Ingebrigtsen, Alfred M. Szmidt Cc: rgm@gnu.org, 786707@bugs.debian.org, 27933@debbugs.gnu.org, steve@einval.com, 786707-forwarded@bugs.debian.org, rlb@defaultvalue.org > > PS. Shouldn't bugs become unarchived when someone replies to an > > already archived one? The discussion here is now lost in the > > ether... > > Indeed; it's one of the most annoying things about debbugs. +1. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
* bug#27933: emacs25: default info dir initialization slow with remote filesystems 2022-04-14 13:41 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen 2022-04-14 14:58 ` Drew Adams @ 2022-04-14 15:43 ` Glenn Morris 1 sibling, 0 replies; 16+ messages in thread From: Glenn Morris @ 2022-04-14 15:43 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Lars Ingebrigtsen; +Cc: Alfred M. Szmidt, 27933 (Dropped unrelated Debian addresses) Lars Ingebrigtsen wrote: >> PS. Shouldn't bugs become unarchived when someone replies to an >> already archived one? The discussion here is now lost in the ether... > > Indeed; it's one of the most annoying things about debbugs. Patches can be sent to https://debbugs.gnu.org/54940 (Since the Emacs project is keen to move to another platform, it's hard to see the motivation.) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2022-04-14 15:43 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 16+ messages (download: mbox.gz follow: Atom feed -- links below jump to the message on this page -- [not found] <20150524155316.28851.58585.reportbug@tack.local> 2017-08-03 13:59 ` bug#27933: emacs25: default info dir initialization slow with remote filesystems Rob Browning 2017-08-03 15:29 ` Glenn Morris 2017-08-03 16:39 ` Steve McIntyre 2017-08-03 16:41 ` Glenn Morris 2017-08-03 16:49 ` Steve McIntyre [not found] ` <20170803164913.wkuvwws3ry4l4ofy@tack.einval.com> 2017-08-03 17:25 ` Eli Zaretskii 2017-08-03 17:35 ` Glenn Morris 2017-08-03 18:31 ` Eli Zaretskii 2017-08-03 21:37 ` Glenn Morris 2022-02-03 20:04 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen 2022-03-04 16:36 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen 2022-03-14 0:57 ` Steve McIntyre [not found] ` <E1neaLG-0000XL-2e@fencepost.gnu.org> [not found] ` <87h76xp50o.fsf@gnus.org> [not found] ` <E1neco7-0006BJ-8F@fencepost.gnu.org> [not found] ` <875yndp086.fsf@gnus.org> 2022-04-14 6:51 ` Alfred M. Szmidt 2022-04-14 13:41 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen 2022-04-14 14:58 ` Drew Adams 2022-04-14 15:43 ` Glenn Morris
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