bug#15404: make_timespec undefined

bug#15404: make_timespec undefined

[Richard Stallman]

I tried to recompile with the latest sources, and got an error from
linking that make_timespec is not defined.  The error was in xterm.o
and xdisp.o and keyboard.o.  It may have occurred in other files as well
but ld stopped listing them.

I can't find any place that tries to define it.

I am using the latest gNewSense for MIPS.

-- 
Dr Richard Stallman
President, Free Software Foundation
51 Franklin St
Boston MA 02110
USA
www.fsf.org  www.gnu.org
Skype: No way! That's nonfree (freedom-denying) software.
  Use Ekiga or an ordinary phone call.

bug#15404: make_timespec undefined

[Glenn Morris]

Should be defined in lib/libgnu.a (source in lib/timespec.h).

I imagine your problems would go away if you bootstrap.

bug#15404: make_timespec undefined

[Richard Stallman]

        [ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider
        [ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,
        [ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example.

    Should be defined in lib/libgnu.a (source in lib/timespec.h).

Thanks.  That fixed it.

    I imagine your problems would go away if you bootstrap.

Alas, bootstrapping tends to cause me a lot of trouble.  For instance,
it deletes the old version of Emacs, so if anything goes wrong,
I am basically shafted until I get it fixed.  A couple of months ago,
people suggested that I try to rebuild without a bootstrap.

-- 
Dr Richard Stallman
President, Free Software Foundation
51 Franklin St
Boston MA 02110
USA
www.fsf.org  www.gnu.org
Skype: No way! That's nonfree (freedom-denying) software.
  Use Ekiga or an ordinary phone call.

bug#15404: make_timespec undefined

[Eli Zaretskii]

> Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2013 09:38:35 -0400
> From: Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org>
> Cc: 15404@debbugs.gnu.org
> 
> Alas, bootstrapping tends to cause me a lot of trouble.  For instance,
> it deletes the old version of Emacs, so if anything goes wrong,
> I am basically shafted until I get it fixed.

One way of avoiding such a total loss is to have 2 separate bzr
branches, both bound to the main one on Savannah.  Assuming you
already have one such branch, here's a way of creating another one,
starting from the 1st branch's top-level directory:

  $ cd ..
  $ bzr branch --bind bzr+ssh://rms@bzr.savannah.gnu.org/emacs/trunk ./trunk2

When bzr is done (it should be pretty quick, assuming you have a
shared repo in the parent directory of your current emacs trunk),
bootstrap the new branch in trunk2, and then you can use that as a
spare branch.  E.g., you could always bootstrap trunk2, so that when
the "normal" build in the other branch fails, you could try in trunk2,
and if that works, you know you can bootstrap in the other branch
without fear.

Since both branches are bound to the mainline, you can commit from any
of them.

bug#15404: make_timespec undefined

[Glenn Morris]

Eli Zaretskii wrote:

>> Alas, bootstrapping tends to cause me a lot of trouble.  For instance,
>> it deletes the old version of Emacs, so if anything goes wrong,
>> I am basically shafted until I get it fixed.
>
> One way of avoiding such a total loss is to have 2 separate bzr
> branches, both bound to the main one on Savannah.

Low-tech version:

  cp -pr trunk trunk.bak

before bootstrapping trunk.

bug#15404: make_timespec undefined

[Richard Stallman]

        [ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider
        [ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,
        [ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example.

      cp -pr trunk trunk.bak

Yes, that would work.  Copying almost 400meg seems extravagant to me,
though; is it really necessary?

-- 
Dr Richard Stallman
President, Free Software Foundation
51 Franklin St
Boston MA 02110
USA
www.fsf.org  www.gnu.org
Skype: No way! That's nonfree (freedom-denying) software.
  Use Ekiga or an ordinary phone call.

bug#15404: make_timespec undefined

[Richard Stallman]

        [ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider
        [ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,
        [ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example.

      $ bzr branch --bind bzr+ssh://rms@bzr.savannah.gnu.org/emacs/trunk ./trunk2

    When bzr is done (it should be pretty quick, assuming you have a
    shared repo in the parent directory of your current emacs trunk),

This could be a good method.
How can I tell whether there is a shared repo there?

-- 
Dr Richard Stallman
President, Free Software Foundation
51 Franklin St
Boston MA 02110
USA
www.fsf.org  www.gnu.org
Skype: No way! That's nonfree (freedom-denying) software.
  Use Ekiga or an ordinary phone call.

bug#15404: make_timespec undefined

[Eli Zaretskii]

> Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2013 03:09:09 -0400
> From: Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org>
> CC: rgm@gnu.org, 15404@debbugs.gnu.org
> 
>       $ bzr branch --bind bzr+ssh://rms@bzr.savannah.gnu.org/emacs/trunk ./trunk2
> 
>     When bzr is done (it should be pretty quick, assuming you have a
>     shared repo in the parent directory of your current emacs trunk),
> 
> This could be a good method.
> How can I tell whether there is a shared repo there?

Invoke "bzr info" in the parent directory of your branch.  If there is
a repo, it will say something like this:

  Shared repository with trees (format: 2a)
  Location:
    shared repository: .

If you have no repo, it will say something like this:

  bzr: ERROR: Not a branch: "/foo/bar"

If you get the latter, there's a way to create a shared repo after the
fact, and then reconfigure your current branch to use it (I can tell
you how).  You should do this _before_ creating the other branch, or
else creating that other branch will take much longer.

bug#15404: make_timespec undefined

[Andreas Schwab]

Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:

> Invoke "bzr info" in the parent directory of your branch.

Or run it inside the branch.

Andreas.

-- 
Andreas Schwab, SUSE Labs, schwab@suse.de
GPG Key fingerprint = 0196 BAD8 1CE9 1970 F4BE  1748 E4D4 88E3 0EEA B9D7
"And now for something completely different."

bug#15404: make_timespec undefined

[Glenn Morris]

Richard Stallman wrote:

> Alas, bootstrapping tends to cause me a lot of trouble.  For instance,
> it deletes the old version of Emacs, so if anything goes wrong,
> I am basically shafted until I get it fixed. 

Why don't you `make install'?

bug#15404: make_timespec undefined

[Glenn Morris]

Glenn Morris wrote:

> Why don't you `make install'?

Or have Emacs 24.3 installed on your machine.

bug#15404: make_timespec undefined

[Stefan Monnier]

>> Alas, bootstrapping tends to cause me a lot of trouble.  For instance,
>> it deletes the old version of Emacs, so if anything goes wrong,
>> I am basically shafted until I get it fixed. 
> Why don't you `make install'?

I personally find it very inconvenient, because C-h f then jumps to the
installed files, which are not under version control, so I can't
usefully edit them.


        Stefan

bug#15404: make_timespec undefined

[Glenn Morris]

Stefan Monnier wrote:

>> Why don't you `make install'?
>
> I personally find it very inconvenient, because C-h f then jumps to the
> installed files, which are not under version control, so I can't
> usefully edit them.

I'm sure you could modify C-h f to jump to the versions in
`source-directory' instead.

bug#15404: make_timespec undefined

[Richard Stallman]

        [ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider
        [ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,
        [ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example.

    Why don't you `make install'?

I run it out of the development directory so that my changes get
into use, and so that it is easy to update.  Except that when a bootstrap
is needed, it is a pain.

    Or have Emacs 24.3 installed on your machine.

I could build that from source, but why would that be better?

-- 
Dr Richard Stallman
President, Free Software Foundation
51 Franklin St
Boston MA 02110
USA
www.fsf.org  www.gnu.org
Skype: No way! That's nonfree (freedom-denying) software.
  Use Ekiga or an ordinary phone call.

bug#15404: make_timespec undefined

[Eli Zaretskii]

> Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2013 03:08:25 -0400
> From: Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org>
> Cc: 15404@debbugs.gnu.org
> 
>     Or have Emacs 24.3 installed on your machine.
> 
> I could build that from source, but why would that be better?

Because Emacs 24.3 is more stable, and doesn't change.

bug#15404: make_timespec undefined

[Richard Stallman]

        [ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider
        [ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,
        [ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example.

    Because Emacs 24.3 is more stable, and doesn't change.

I do want to use something more recent.

-- 
Dr Richard Stallman
President, Free Software Foundation
51 Franklin St
Boston MA 02110
USA
www.fsf.org  www.gnu.org
Skype: No way! That's nonfree (freedom-denying) software.
  Use Ekiga or an ordinary phone call.

bug#15404: make_timespec undefined

[Glenn Morris]

Richard Stallman wrote:

>     Or have Emacs 24.3 installed on your machine.
>
> I could build that from source, but why would that be better?

It would be a backup in case Emacs trunk breaks, so you aren't "shafted"
until it gets fixed. I'm assuming you use Emacs for mail and stuff on a
daily basis.

Just do the obvious thing and have some kind of backup, whether it be a
different version, `make install', a tar file, rsync, cp -r, a second
bzr branch, whatever works for you. Having only a checkout of Emacs
trunk and nothing else is asking for trouble.

bug#15404: Mitigating "make bootstrap" trashing the tree

[William G. Gardella]

Hello,

One suggestion to help avoid "make bootstrap" trashing the source tree
and your old emacs build would be to use "bzr stash" to make a
temporary, local copy of your previous build.  Another idea would be to
do something like make install DESTDIR=built-on-`date +%Y-%m-%d_%H-%M`,
so that even if you do not wish to install globally whenever you build
Emacs, you at least have past successful builds in a convenient place.

Ultimately, however, I think "make bootstrap" should avoid doing lots of
implicit things like deleting old builds.  It should be reversible
somehow without needing to know bzr hacks or redirect the output of
previous builds.  Automated functions that make a mess should clean up
after themselves.

-- 
Regards,
WGG

bug#15404: Mitigating "make bootstrap" trashing the tree

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: William G. Gardella <wgg2@member.fsf.org>
> Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2013 17:16:10 +0000
> 
> One suggestion to help avoid "make bootstrap" trashing the source tree
> and your old emacs build would be to use "bzr stash" to make a
> temporary, local copy of your previous build.

I guess you mean "bzr shelve".  But that would only stash away
versioned files that were locally modified, so I expect it to do
nothing in a bound branch that doesn't have any local changes.

Making a local branch is probably what you had in mind.

bug#15404: Mitigating "make bootstrap" trashing the tree

[William G. Gardella]

Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:

[...]

> I guess you mean "bzr shelve".  But that would only stash away
> versioned files that were locally modified, so I expect it to do
> nothing in a bound branch that doesn't have any local changes.
>
> Making a local branch is probably what you had in mind.

Yes, I meant "bzr shelve", apologies.  And it seems you're right; it
would only do any good if the files generated during the previous run of
"make" had already been added with "bzr add".  I guess a local branch is
probably the best way.

-- 
Regards,
WGG