From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Juri Linkov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#35887: 26.1; global-eldoc-mode minibuffer noise is very annoying Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2019 00:06:22 +0300 Organization: LINKOV.NET Message-ID: <87a7evivxt.fsf@mail.linkov.net> References: <87sgt3k4w0.fsf@hysteria.proulx.com> <85tvdjd1gy.fsf@gmail.com> <20190524151617874644844@bob.proulx.com> <87woibbpxb.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <2f351f60-2fbd-3ea5-1f4d-24aec7871bf3@gmx.at> <1f8fc8bc-5858-c95e-f876-4020f9f43593@yandex.ru> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: blaine.gmane.org; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:195.159.176.226"; logging-data="136571"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@blaine.gmane.org" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) Cc: 35887@debbugs.gnu.org, npostavs@gmail.com, Bob Proulx To: Dmitry Gutov Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Jun 05 23:12:10 2019 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1hYdCZ-000ZAS-QH for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 05 Jun 2019 23:12:08 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50163 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hYdCY-00014l-Lx for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 05 Jun 2019 17:12:06 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:51353) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hYd8d-0006Jv-3g for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 05 Jun 2019 17:08:04 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hYd8c-0008Eq-5W for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 05 Jun 2019 17:08:03 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]:34766) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hYd8b-0008E7-Rk for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 05 Jun 2019 17:08:02 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hYd8b-0006E2-LQ for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 05 Jun 2019 17:08:01 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Juri Linkov Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2019 21:08:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 35887 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs Original-Received: via spool by 35887-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B35887.155976883623878 (code B ref 35887); Wed, 05 Jun 2019 21:08:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at 35887) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Jun 2019 21:07:16 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48310 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hYd7s-0006D4-Ci for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 05 Jun 2019 17:07:16 -0400 Original-Received: from basenji.apple.relay.mailchannels.net ([23.83.208.12]:31414) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hYd7p-0006Ct-PX for 35887@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 05 Jun 2019 17:07:14 -0400 X-Sender-Id: dreamhost|x-authsender|jurta@jurta.org Original-Received: from relay.mailchannels.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 50BB82262B; Wed, 5 Jun 2019 21:07:12 +0000 (UTC) Original-Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a5.g.dreamhost.com (100-96-28-110.trex.outbound.svc.cluster.local [100.96.28.110]) (Authenticated sender: dreamhost) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id B3E51224F8; Wed, 5 Jun 2019 21:07:11 +0000 (UTC) X-Sender-Id: dreamhost|x-authsender|jurta@jurta.org Original-Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a5.g.dreamhost.com ([TEMPUNAVAIL]. [64.90.62.162]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384) by 0.0.0.0:2500 (trex/5.17.2); Wed, 05 Jun 2019 21:07:12 +0000 X-MC-Relay: Neutral X-MailChannels-SenderId: dreamhost|x-authsender|jurta@jurta.org X-MailChannels-Auth-Id: dreamhost X-Snatch-Stop: 7fade8273d02f507_1559768832142_167323808 X-MC-Loop-Signature: 1559768832142:3288125841 X-MC-Ingress-Time: 1559768832142 Original-Received: from pdx1-sub0-mail-a5.g.dreamhost.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pdx1-sub0-mail-a5.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A89917F6E6; Wed, 5 Jun 2019 14:07:06 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=linkov.net; h=from:to:cc :subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s=linkov.net; bh=wob88Y jgjR7PWd8y5hMY5+Z/kP4=; b=K3f5YbiNnzXRkAajiZrWgAekelF5Ak+l4y4hNd UwFGrxXSxCsZz+N2x+i2Mo86mS4x7mnJ/dpqnJPurNb2FXOfNbVzHOx0QS26lLR2 ENgNN2tAZknYmJtoNuAiM1S4ZsTe0kd4pEIAp8CBXRvoURlKUbvABhHx/nrcmtZR s5suc= Original-Received: from mail.jurta.org (m91-129-96-73.cust.tele2.ee [91.129.96.73]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: jurta@jurta.org) by pdx1-sub0-mail-a5.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id C9C607F6DC; Wed, 5 Jun 2019 14:07:02 -0700 (PDT) X-DH-BACKEND: pdx1-sub0-mail-a5 In-Reply-To: <1f8fc8bc-5858-c95e-f876-4020f9f43593@yandex.ru> (Dmitry Gutov's message of "Tue, 4 Jun 2019 16:30:35 +0300") X-VR-OUT-STATUS: OK X-VR-OUT-SCORE: -100 X-VR-OUT-SPAMCAUSE: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeduuddrudegvddgudeitdcutefuodetggdotefrodftvfcurfhrohhfihhlvgemucggtfgfnhhsuhgsshgtrhhisggvpdfftffgtefojffquffvnecuuegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecusecvtfgvtghiphhivghnthhsucdlqddutddtmdenucfjughrpefhvffuohhfffgjkfgfgggtgfesthekredttderudenucfhrhhomheplfhurhhiucfnihhnkhhovhcuoehjuhhriheslhhinhhkohhvrdhnvghtqeenucfkphepledurdduvdelrdeliedrjeefnecurfgrrhgrmhepmhhouggvpehsmhhtphdphhgvlhhopehmrghilhdrjhhurhhtrgdrohhrghdpihhnvghtpeeluddruddvledrleeirdejfedprhgvthhurhhnqdhprghthheplfhurhhiucfnihhnkhhovhcuoehjuhhriheslhhinhhkohhvrdhnvghtqedpmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpehjuhhriheslhhinhhkohhvrdhnvghtpdhnrhgtphhtthhopegughhuthhovheshigrnhguvgigrdhruhenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedt X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 209.51.188.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:160167 Archived-At: >> Would you consider an application like Firefox operational if >> you launch it for the first time in your live, spin your mouse-wheel >> to find out whether there's something below the part you see on your >> screen and get a bell ringing and the information that you are at the >> end of a thing called "buffer"?=A0 Or that after selecting some text >> with the mouse you just have "Mark set"? > > It almost feels like the general approach for a long time has been to > compensate the general "clunkiness" (or at least peculiarity) of some U= I > corners with extra verbosity. > > It's like the program is saying "it's okay if we're doing unusual thing= s, > but we'll tell you everything we're doing along the way". > > I don't find it jarring myself, but we could probably do better. Sometimes such verbosity is justified. For example, when on exiting Isearch displays a reminder "Mark saved where search started".