From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Michael Welsh Duggan Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#1305: All code that currently beeps should use visual bell instead Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2021 17:09:40 -0400 Message-ID: <87a6pwvcrv.fsf@md5i.com> References: <009901c9421f$5bd0a6b0$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <00ad01c942a0$1f49ca60$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <87eef9qg81.fsf@gnus.org> <1869622e162377be79e9@heytings.org> <83bladw0dh.fsf@gnu.org> <87a6pxqdeg.fsf@gnus.org> <875z0lqcj4.fsf@gnus.org> <1869622e1602a39e56a6@heytings.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="2884"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen , 1305@debbugs.gnu.org, Stefan Kangas , jasonspiro4@gmail.com, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca To: Gregory Heytings Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Apr 17 23:10:23 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lXsCr-0000aq-H4 for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 17 Apr 2021 23:10:21 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:48062 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lXsCp-00083f-TO for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 17 Apr 2021 17:10:20 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:51326) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lXsCY-00083W-Lv for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 17 Apr 2021 17:10:02 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]:33253) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lXsCY-0001dz-9G for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 17 Apr 2021 17:10:02 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lXsCY-0007VD-2n for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 17 Apr 2021 17:10:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Michael Welsh Duggan Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2021 21:10:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 1305 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs Original-Received: via spool by 1305-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B1305.161869379828824 (code B ref 1305); Sat, 17 Apr 2021 21:10:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 1305) by debbugs.gnu.org; 17 Apr 2021 21:09:58 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44799 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lXsCT-0007Uq-VU for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 17 Apr 2021 17:09:58 -0400 Original-Received: from md5i.com ([75.151.244.229]:49864) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lXsCR-0007Ub-RL for 1305@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 17 Apr 2021 17:09:56 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=md5i.com; s=dkim; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date:References: Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe: List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=ZjonNWIHq3onqbIGLIS33nLVCKpnmyXhsXJidkl6DLs=; b=Lp52zHZnAVTfPLYf1HSan+t0ew gtcIz8aFDo1rVoeh/eV6bhBBjJdze5jW0p+MC4UgN7JpL+3BvHAimTXSkoZ5OISw/UFc3XG14oh91 A1usZqjCMbWbkjDtWWeWbodXZ; Original-Received: from abode.md5i.com ([192.168.177.1] helo=miko) by md5i.com with esmtpsa (TLS1.3) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (Exim 4.94) (envelope-from ) id 1lXsCD-004ned-1R; Sat, 17 Apr 2021 17:09:40 -0400 In-Reply-To: <1869622e1602a39e56a6@heytings.org> (Gregory Heytings's message of "Sat, 17 Apr 2021 20:59:52 +0000") X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:204270 Archived-At: Gregory Heytings writes: >>>> So in this instance, defaulting `visible-bell' to "on" would make >>>> `C-g' more intrusive/obnoxious than previously... which is the >>>> opposite effect than what was originally discussed in this bug >>>> report. >>> >>> Can anything be done about that, though? >> >> I think this might point toward not doing anything about the default >> -- people who don't like beeps will switch them off on the OS level. >> That is, flipping the default will make `C-g' more intrusive for >> people who've already made a decision to ignore beeps. >> > > Note that for GNU/Linux users who use a more exotic window manager > instead of Gnome or KDE, it's the opposite: they have to make an > active decision to hear beeps. IOW, they will not hear any beep > unless they configure their computer to do so. > > I checked on macOS, and the only apps (at least, the only apps among > the ones I use) that repeatedly beep are the terminal and Emacs. > Other apps only beep when you do something "wrong", that is, when they > cannot do what you want (for example when you ask the program to paste > something when there is nothing to paste), or when they open an > important dialog. The terminal also beeps when it cannot do what you > want (for example when you press TAB and it cannot complete the > current input). In comparison, Emacs beeps a lot. Really? I find that, in general, Emacs only beeps when it cannot do what I want (for example, C-n at EOB) or I cancel an operation (C-g or ESC ESC ESC). Under what other circumstances are you encountering beeping? -- Michael Welsh Duggan (md5i@md5i.com)