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* bug#52994: 29.0.50; Help descriptions from menu bar items don't appear in the echo area
       [not found] <m18rvwwebj.fsf.ref@yahoo.es>
@ 2022-01-04  0:10 ` Daniel Martín via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
  2022-01-14  8:39   ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread
From: Daniel Martín via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors @ 2022-01-04  0:10 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 52994


Severity: minor

Steps to reproduce the problem:

emacs -Q
Click on File, place the mouse over "Visit New File", but don't click it.

Expected results:

"Specify a new file's name, to edit the file", which is the value for
the :help keyword of that menu item, appears in the echo area, or
perhaps in a tooltip.

Actual results:

Nothing appears in the echo area.

If you run Emacs in a console, it works correctly (press F10 to open the
menu bar).

In GNU Emacs 29.0.50 (build 1, x86_64-apple-darwin20.6.0, NS appkit-2022.60 Version 11.6 (Build 20G165))
 of 2022-01-03 built on Daniels-MacBook-Pro.local
Repository revision: 5c63786cb9873ab2b61b5ad511c84df9cd56ce87
Repository branch: master
Windowing system distributor 'Apple', version 10.3.2022
System Description:  macOS 11.6

Configured features:
ACL DBUS GIF GLIB GMP GNUTLS JPEG JSON LCMS2 LIBXML2 MODULES NOTIFY
KQUEUE NS PDUMPER PNG RSVG SQLITE3 THREADS TIFF TOOLKIT_SCROLL_BARS WEBP
XIM ZLIB

Important settings:
  value of $LANG: en_ES.UTF-8
  locale-coding-system: utf-8-unix

Major mode: ELisp/l

Minor modes in effect:
  tooltip-mode: t
  global-eldoc-mode: t
  eldoc-mode: t
  show-paren-mode: t
  electric-indent-mode: t
  mouse-wheel-mode: t
  tool-bar-mode: t
  menu-bar-mode: t
  file-name-shadow-mode: t
  global-font-lock-mode: t
  font-lock-mode: t
  blink-cursor-mode: t
  auto-composition-mode: t
  auto-encryption-mode: t
  auto-compression-mode: t
  line-number-mode: t
  indent-tabs-mode: t
  transient-mark-mode: t

Load-path shadows:
None found.

Features:
(shadow sort mail-extr emacsbug sendmail shortdoc vc-mtn vc-hg vc-bzr
vc-src vc-sccs vc-svn vc-cvs vc-rcs cus-edit dabbrev sourcegraph pcase
whitespace smerge-mode diff add-log log-view pcvs-util pp pulse color
xref project misearch multi-isearch find-dired ffap files-x grep compile
vc cc-mode cc-fonts cc-guess cc-menus cc-cmds cc-styles cc-align
cc-engine cc-vars cc-defs disass help-fns radix-tree cl-print debug
backtrace cus-start cus-load info-look vc-git diff-mode vc-dispatcher
bug-reference org-element avl-tree generator ol-eww eww xdg url-queue
thingatpt mm-url ol-rmail ol-mhe ol-irc ol-info ol-gnus nnselect
gnus-search eieio-opt cl-extra help-mode speedbar ezimage dframe
gnus-art mm-uu mml2015 mm-view mml-smime smime dig gnus-sum shr
pixel-fill kinsoku svg dom browse-url url url-proxy url-privacy
url-expand url-methods url-history url-cookie url-domsuf url-util
url-parse auth-source cl-seq eieio eieio-core cl-macs eieio-loaddefs
url-vars gnus-group gnus-undo gnus-start gnus-dbus dbus xml gnus-cloud
nnimap nnmail mail-source utf7 netrc nnoo parse-time gnus-spec gnus-int
gnus-range message mailcap yank-media rmc puny rfc822 mml mml-sec
password-cache epa derived epg rfc6068 epg-config mm-decode mm-bodies
mm-encode mail-parse rfc2231 rfc2047 rfc2045 ietf-drums mailabbrev
gmm-utils mailheader gnus-win gnus nnheader gnus-util
text-property-search mail-utils mm-util mail-prsvr wid-edit ol-docview
doc-view jka-compr image-mode exif ol-bibtex ol-bbdb ol-w3m ol-doi
org-link-doi org ob ob-tangle ob-ref ob-lob ob-table ob-exp org-macro
org-footnote org-src ob-comint org-pcomplete pcomplete comint ansi-color
ring org-list org-faces org-entities noutline outline easy-mmode
org-version ob-emacs-lisp ob-core ob-eval org-table oc-basic json map
bibtex iso8601 time-date ol rx org-keys oc org-compat advice org-macs
org-loaddefs format-spec find-func cal-menu calendar cal-loaddefs
dired-aux cl-loaddefs cl-lib seq gv subr-x byte-opt bytecomp
byte-compile cconv dired dired-loaddefs info iso-transl tooltip eldoc
paren electric uniquify ediff-hook vc-hooks lisp-float-type elisp-mode
mwheel term/ns-win ns-win ucs-normalize mule-util term/common-win
tool-bar dnd fontset image regexp-opt fringe tabulated-list replace
newcomment text-mode lisp-mode prog-mode register page tab-bar menu-bar
rfn-eshadow isearch easymenu timer select scroll-bar mouse jit-lock
font-lock syntax font-core term/tty-colors frame minibuffer cl-generic
cham georgian utf-8-lang misc-lang vietnamese tibetan thai tai-viet lao
korean japanese eucjp-ms cp51932 hebrew greek romanian slovak czech
european ethiopic indian cyrillic chinese composite emoji-zwj charscript
charprop case-table epa-hook jka-cmpr-hook help simple abbrev obarray
cl-preloaded nadvice button loaddefs faces cus-face macroexp files
window text-properties overlay sha1 md5 base64 format env code-pages
mule custom widget keymap hashtable-print-readable backquote threads
dbusbind kqueue cocoa ns lcms2 multi-tty make-network-process emacs)

Memory information:
((conses 16 548405 42098)
 (symbols 48 25559 1)
 (strings 32 100645 4817)
 (string-bytes 1 3405349)
 (vectors 16 56224)
 (vector-slots 8 1251101 221644)
 (floats 8 400 257)
 (intervals 56 40819 250)
 (buffers 992 38))





^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread

* bug#52994: 29.0.50; Help descriptions from menu bar items don't appear in the echo area
  2022-01-04  0:10 ` bug#52994: 29.0.50; Help descriptions from menu bar items don't appear in the echo area Daniel Martín via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
@ 2022-01-14  8:39   ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
  2022-01-15 12:37     ` Alan Third
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread
From: Lars Ingebrigtsen @ 2022-01-14  8:39 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Daniel Martín; +Cc: 52994, Alan Third

Daniel Martín <mardani29@yahoo.es> writes:

> Steps to reproduce the problem:
>
> emacs -Q
> Click on File, place the mouse over "Visit New File", but don't click it.
>
> Expected results:
>
> "Specify a new file's name, to edit the file", which is the value for
> the :help keyword of that menu item, appears in the echo area, or
> perhaps in a tooltip.
>
> Actual results:
>
> Nothing appears in the echo area.

I'm unable to reproduce this problem on Debian -- is this a Macos
problem only?

On Macos, the menu is separated from the Emacs frame, and I'm guessing
it's impossible to do tooltips up there.  But I guess it could show the
tooltips in the echo area?  I.e., kinda emulate having tooltip-mode off
when doing the menus?

I've added Alan to the CCs; perhaps he has some comments.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no





^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread

* bug#52994: 29.0.50; Help descriptions from menu bar items don't appear in the echo area
  2022-01-14  8:39   ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
@ 2022-01-15 12:37     ` Alan Third
  2022-01-20 10:16       ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread
From: Alan Third @ 2022-01-15 12:37 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Lars Ingebrigtsen; +Cc: 52994, Daniel Martín

On Fri, Jan 14, 2022 at 09:39:58AM +0100, Lars Ingebrigtsen wrote:
> Daniel Martín <mardani29@yahoo.es> writes:
> 
> > Steps to reproduce the problem:
> >
> > emacs -Q
> > Click on File, place the mouse over "Visit New File", but don't click it.
> >
> > Expected results:
> >
> > "Specify a new file's name, to edit the file", which is the value for
> > the :help keyword of that menu item, appears in the echo area, or
> > perhaps in a tooltip.
> >
> > Actual results:
> >
> > Nothing appears in the echo area.
> 
> I'm unable to reproduce this problem on Debian -- is this a Macos
> problem only?
> 
> On Macos, the menu is separated from the Emacs frame, and I'm guessing
> it's impossible to do tooltips up there.  But I guess it could show the
> tooltips in the echo area?  I.e., kinda emulate having tooltip-mode off
> when doing the menus?
> 
> I've added Alan to the CCs; perhaps he has some comments.

I was under the impression that the help text appears in a tooltip. We
had a recent bug report where the wrong text was sometimes appearing
in the tooltip, but that should be fixed now, at least on master.

I'd be surprised if there's no tooltip at all or the tooltip is empty,
it's a function provided by the toolkit.
-- 
Alan Third





^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread

* bug#52994: 29.0.50; Help descriptions from menu bar items don't appear in the echo area
  2022-01-15 12:37     ` Alan Third
@ 2022-01-20 10:16       ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
  2022-01-20 11:11         ` Alan Third
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread
From: Lars Ingebrigtsen @ 2022-01-20 10:16 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Alan Third; +Cc: 52994, Daniel Martín

Alan Third <alan@idiocy.org> writes:

> I was under the impression that the help text appears in a tooltip. We
> had a recent bug report where the wrong text was sometimes appearing
> in the tooltip, but that should be fixed now, at least on master.
>
> I'd be surprised if there's no tooltip at all or the tooltip is empty,
> it's a function provided by the toolkit.

Do you mean on Macos or Debian?  In Macos, I'm getting no tooltips when
using the menu.  (And I'd be surprised to be getting them, really,
because the Macos menus are separated from the Emacs frame.)

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no





^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread

* bug#52994: 29.0.50; Help descriptions from menu bar items don't appear in the echo area
  2022-01-20 10:16       ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
@ 2022-01-20 11:11         ` Alan Third
  2022-01-20 11:14           ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
                             ` (2 more replies)
  0 siblings, 3 replies; 13+ messages in thread
From: Alan Third @ 2022-01-20 11:11 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Lars Ingebrigtsen; +Cc: 52994, Daniel Martín



On 20 January 2022 10:16:01 GMT, Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> wrote:
>Alan Third <alan@idiocy.org> writes:
>
>> I was under the impression that the help text appears in a tooltip. We
>> had a recent bug report where the wrong text was sometimes appearing
>> in the tooltip, but that should be fixed now, at least on master.
>>
>> I'd be surprised if there's no tooltip at all or the tooltip is empty,
>> it's a function provided by the toolkit.
>
>Do you mean on Macos or Debian?  In Macos, I'm getting no tooltips when
>using the menu.  (And I'd be surprised to be getting them, really,
>because the Macos menus are separated from the Emacs frame.)

Oh, sorry, I totally misread this and thought it was about the toolbar.

You're right, I don't expect tooltips to appear for menu items and I'm not sure whether it's even possible to update the Emacs frame while the menus are open.





^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread

* bug#52994: 29.0.50; Help descriptions from menu bar items don't appear in the echo area
  2022-01-20 11:11         ` Alan Third
@ 2022-01-20 11:14           ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
  2022-01-20 11:41           ` Po Lu via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
  2022-01-20 13:20           ` Daniel Martín via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
  2 siblings, 0 replies; 13+ messages in thread
From: Lars Ingebrigtsen @ 2022-01-20 11:14 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Alan Third; +Cc: 52994, Daniel Martín

Alan Third <alan@idiocy.org> writes:

> You're right, I don't expect tooltips to appear for menu items and I'm
> not sure whether it's even possible to update the Emacs frame while
> the menus are open.

Right.  Perhaps there should be a setting to emulate the action of
tooltip-mode off when using the menus only?  In other words, an option
to display the menu bar help texts in the echo area.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no





^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread

* bug#52994: 29.0.50; Help descriptions from menu bar items don't appear in the echo area
  2022-01-20 11:11         ` Alan Third
  2022-01-20 11:14           ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
@ 2022-01-20 11:41           ` Po Lu via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
  2022-01-22 11:28             ` Alan Third
  2022-01-20 13:20           ` Daniel Martín via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
  2 siblings, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread
From: Po Lu via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors @ 2022-01-20 11:41 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Alan Third; +Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen, 52994, Daniel Martín

Alan Third <alan@idiocy.org> writes:

> Oh, sorry, I totally misread this and thought it was about the
> toolbar.

If you'd like, I'll take a stab at implementing the display of menu bar
help text in the echo area on NS later today, or tomorrow.

Thanks.

> You're right, I don't expect tooltips to appear for menu items and I'm
> not sure whether it's even possible to update the Emacs frame while
> the menus are open.

I think it is.  The echo area redisplays normally, to the best of my
knowledge.





^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread

* bug#52994: 29.0.50; Help descriptions from menu bar items don't appear in the echo area
  2022-01-20 11:11         ` Alan Third
  2022-01-20 11:14           ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
  2022-01-20 11:41           ` Po Lu via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
@ 2022-01-20 13:20           ` Daniel Martín via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
  2 siblings, 0 replies; 13+ messages in thread
From: Daniel Martín via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors @ 2022-01-20 13:20 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Alan Third; +Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen, 52994

Alan Third <alan@idiocy.org> writes:

> On 20 January 2022 10:16:01 GMT, Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> wrote:
>>Alan Third <alan@idiocy.org> writes:
>>
>>> I was under the impression that the help text appears in a tooltip. We
>>> had a recent bug report where the wrong text was sometimes appearing
>>> in the tooltip, but that should be fixed now, at least on master.
>>>
>>> I'd be surprised if there's no tooltip at all or the tooltip is empty,
>>> it's a function provided by the toolkit.
>>
>>Do you mean on Macos or Debian?  In Macos, I'm getting no tooltips when
>>using the menu.  (And I'd be surprised to be getting them, really,
>>because the Macos menus are separated from the Emacs frame.)
>
> Oh, sorry, I totally misread this and thought it was about the toolbar.
>
> You're right, I don't expect tooltips to appear for menu items and I'm not sure whether it's even possible to update the Emacs frame while the menus are open.

The "Mac port" is able to show the help description in the echo area
when you point on an item in the menu bar.  It'd be interesting to see
how it does it and if we could implement the same approach.





^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread

* bug#52994: 29.0.50; Help descriptions from menu bar items don't appear in the echo area
  2022-01-20 11:41           ` Po Lu via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
@ 2022-01-22 11:28             ` Alan Third
  2022-01-22 11:42               ` Po Lu via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread
From: Alan Third @ 2022-01-22 11:28 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Po Lu; +Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen, 52994, Daniel Martín

On Thu, Jan 20, 2022 at 07:41:57PM +0800, Po Lu wrote:
> Alan Third <alan@idiocy.org> writes:
> 
> > Oh, sorry, I totally misread this and thought it was about the
> > toolbar.
> 
> If you'd like, I'll take a stab at implementing the display of menu bar
> help text in the echo area on NS later today, or tomorrow.

Feel free.

> > You're right, I don't expect tooltips to appear for menu items and I'm
> > not sure whether it's even possible to update the Emacs frame while
> > the menus are open.
> 
> I think it is.  The echo area redisplays normally, to the best of my
> knowledge.

It certainly used to be the case that, at least on macOS, opening a
menu would freeze Emacs completely, as the menu code would go into its
own event loop. Perhaps that's no longer the case.
-- 
Alan Third





^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread

* bug#52994: 29.0.50; Help descriptions from menu bar items don't appear in the echo area
  2022-01-22 11:28             ` Alan Third
@ 2022-01-22 11:42               ` Po Lu via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
  2022-01-22 11:48                 ` Alan Third
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread
From: Po Lu via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors @ 2022-01-22 11:42 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Alan Third; +Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen, 52994, Daniel Martín

Alan Third <alan@idiocy.org> writes:

> It certainly used to be the case that, at least on macOS, opening a
> menu would freeze Emacs completely, as the menu code would go into its
> own event loop. Perhaps that's no longer the case.

Hmm?  Shouldn't that kind of thing only apply to regular menus (as on X
with a tookit and GTK), and not the menu bar?

Thanks.





^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread

* bug#52994: 29.0.50; Help descriptions from menu bar items don't appear in the echo area
  2022-01-22 11:42               ` Po Lu via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
@ 2022-01-22 11:48                 ` Alan Third
  2022-01-22 12:27                   ` Po Lu via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread
From: Alan Third @ 2022-01-22 11:48 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Po Lu; +Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen, 52994, Daniel Martín

On Sat, Jan 22, 2022 at 07:42:52PM +0800, Po Lu wrote:
> Alan Third <alan@idiocy.org> writes:
> 
> > It certainly used to be the case that, at least on macOS, opening a
> > menu would freeze Emacs completely, as the menu code would go into its
> > own event loop. Perhaps that's no longer the case.
> 
> Hmm?  Shouldn't that kind of thing only apply to regular menus (as on X
> with a tookit and GTK), and not the menu bar?

What's the "menu bar" if not the toolkit menus?
-- 
Alan Third





^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread

* bug#52994: 29.0.50; Help descriptions from menu bar items don't appear in the echo area
  2022-01-22 11:48                 ` Alan Third
@ 2022-01-22 12:27                   ` Po Lu via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
  2022-01-22 13:50                     ` Po Lu via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread
From: Po Lu via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors @ 2022-01-22 12:27 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Alan Third; +Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen, 52994, Daniel Martín

Alan Third <alan@idiocy.org> writes:

>> Hmm?  Shouldn't that kind of thing only apply to regular menus (as on X
>> with a tookit and GTK), and not the menu bar?

> What's the "menu bar" if not the toolkit menus?

On every other toolkit (and at least GNUstep, which I just verified),
the menu bar doesn't interfere with the usual event loop.  Though
unfortunately GNUstep doesn't implement willHighlightItem, so I can only
implement help text for macOS.

The only time a nested event loop is run is when a menu is created with
`x-popup-menu', and that's to make it easy to return a value from that
function.  That's also what I was referring to by "regular menus".

Thanks.





^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread

* bug#52994: 29.0.50; Help descriptions from menu bar items don't appear in the echo area
  2022-01-22 12:27                   ` Po Lu via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
@ 2022-01-22 13:50                     ` Po Lu via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 13+ messages in thread
From: Po Lu via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors @ 2022-01-22 13:50 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Alan Third; +Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen, 52994, Daniel Martín

Po Lu <luangruo@yahoo.com> writes:

>> What's the "menu bar" if not the toolkit menus?

> On every other toolkit (and at least GNUstep, which I just verified),
> the menu bar doesn't interfere with the usual event loop.  Though
> unfortunately GNUstep doesn't implement willHighlightItem, so I can only
> implement help text for macOS.

Unfortunately, it seems that's not possible either: macOS itself runs a
nested event loop inside HIToolBoxTrackMenuCommon whenever the menu bar
is opened, which seems to involve Carbon.  I don't know anything about
Carbon, so someone else will have to figure out how to exit such an
event loop.

Otherwise, the code works fine, so I installed it for GNUstep (where
menu tracking is done in the NS event loop) in the hopes that they will
implement `willHighlightItem' at some point in the future.

Thanks.





^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread

end of thread, other threads:[~2022-01-22 13:50 UTC | newest]

Thread overview: 13+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
     [not found] <m18rvwwebj.fsf.ref@yahoo.es>
2022-01-04  0:10 ` bug#52994: 29.0.50; Help descriptions from menu bar items don't appear in the echo area Daniel Martín via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2022-01-14  8:39   ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-01-15 12:37     ` Alan Third
2022-01-20 10:16       ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-01-20 11:11         ` Alan Third
2022-01-20 11:14           ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2022-01-20 11:41           ` Po Lu via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2022-01-22 11:28             ` Alan Third
2022-01-22 11:42               ` Po Lu via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2022-01-22 11:48                 ` Alan Third
2022-01-22 12:27                   ` Po Lu via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2022-01-22 13:50                     ` Po Lu via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2022-01-20 13:20           ` Daniel Martín via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors

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