From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Po Lu via "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#61325: 30.0.50; Jokes in GNUS manual Date: Tue, 07 Feb 2023 23:10:37 +0800 Message-ID: <87a61p7bpu.fsf@yahoo.com> References: <87ttzy7pg1.fsf@localhost> <87wn4u6xj0.fsf@yahoo.com> <871qn1afay.fsf@localhost> <87r0v17iul.fsf@yahoo.com> <87zg9peijp.fsf@localhost> <87mt5p7etx.fsf@yahoo.com> <87wn4tedtx.fsf@localhost> Reply-To: Po Lu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="5539"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Cc: 61325@debbugs.gnu.org To: Ihor Radchenko Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Feb 07 16:13:09 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1pPPef-0001Hv-Q1 for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; 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Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 7cba51e32bb5dbac53c91388e5aa375d; Tue, 07 Feb 2023 15:10:44 +0000 (UTC) In-Reply-To: <87wn4tedtx.fsf@localhost> (Ihor Radchenko's message of "Tue, 07 Feb 2023 14:43:06 +0000") X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.21161 mail.backend.jedi.jws.acl:role.jedi.acl.token.atz.jws.hermes.yahoo X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:255056 Archived-At: Ihor Radchenko writes: > Po Lu via "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text > editors" writes: > >>>> 3.16 Group Topics >>>> >>>> If you read lots and lots of groups, it might be convenient to gro= up >>>> them hierarchically according to topics. You put your Emacs group= s over >>>> here, your sex groups over there, and the rest (what, two groups o= r so?) >>>> you put in some misc section that you never bother with anyway. Y= ou can >>>> even group the Emacs sex groups as a sub-topic to either the Emacs >>>> groups or the sex groups=E2=80=94or both! Go wild! >>> >>> Thanks. >>> I also partially understand the joke. >>> My main problem is the last sentence, which I am not sure if it is >>> technical or still part of the joke. >>> >>> You can even group the Emacs sex groups as a sub-topic to either the >>> Emacs groups or the sex groups=E2=80=94or both! >>> >>> The paragraph structure is basically: >>> >>> >>> >>> Such structure is difficult to understand, especially if the joke itself >>> is not understood. >> ... >>> Not when the jokes stay on the way of understanding the technical parts. >> >> They do not. End of discussion. > > I kindly disagree. 3.16 Group Topics section was difficult to > understand _for me_ precisely because of the jokes. I will elaborate > below. > >> Where I come from, it is generally said that a person who deliberately >> tries to find problems with something is trying to ``pick pricks''. >> They are usually able to find some problems, because the problems they >> report tend to, by definition, rely on their own testimony: ``I don't >> understand'', ``I'm offended by'', etc. >> >> Such people generally ruin the day for everyone else wherever they >> appear. > > Upon hearing about the problem and checking the specifically indicated > sections in the manual, I tend to agree with the person being offended. > Not because I am not offended (I am not), but because, as I stated > earlier, I believe that jokes should not complicate the understanding. > >> Whoever reported the problem with the Gnus manual, which has not seen >> other such reports in over 20 years, certainly sounds like one such >> individual. And if you don't understand the manual, then it is not a >> problem with the jokes therein. Just read it again until you do. >> How many people can understand the following sentence without reading it >> at least once or twice? > > Absence of bug reports does not imply that the manual is easy to > understand. I do not say that it is incomprehensible, but the examples I > pointed to do make it harder to understand. Won't it be an improvement > to make the manual easier to understand for more people? > >> XcmsCIELabClipL >> >> This brings the encountered out-of-gamut color specification into the >> screen's color gamut by reducing or increasing CIE metric lightness >> (L*) in the CIE Lab color space until the color is within the >> gamut. If the Psychometric Chroma of the color specification is beyond >> maximum for the Psychometric Hue Angle, then while maintaining the >> same Psychometric Hue Angle, the color will be clipped to the CIE Lab >> coordinates of maximum Psychometric Chroma. See >> `XcmsCIELabQueryMaxC'. No client data is necessary. >> >> Is color management, thus, an evil which should be persecuted by hordes >> of crusaders? > > I do not see any problem with the provided paragraph. Yes, it contains a > lot of unfamiliar terms, but they appear to be necessary to describe the > technical information. In contrast, jokes do not convey any new > information. They are good to have as an _occasional_ distraction - a > break that may be necessary to simplify understanding; but not good when > they make understanding more difficult. > > Imagine a joke inserted into your example, on top of all other > unfamiliar terms: > >> This brings the encountered out-of-gamut (not gonad, mind you) color >> specification into the screen's color gamut by reducing or >> increasing (let's not think further) CIE metric lightness (L*) in the >> CIE Lab color space until the color is within (mmm...) the gamut. > > Would you find it helpful or at least neutral to have these extra jokes > when trying to understand the above sentence? I didn't see ``let's not think further'' in the Gnus manual. And no, your additions do not make it harder for me to understand that sentence.