bug#74983: [PATCH] Use `keymap-set' instead of `define-key' in emacs lisp intro

bug#74983: [PATCH] Use `keymap-set' instead of `define-key' in emacs lisp intro

[Hong Xu]

* Since `define-key' is considered legacy and we encourage `keymap-set'
  now.
---
 doc/lispintro/emacs-lisp-intro.texi | 11 +++++------
 1 file changed, 5 insertions(+), 6 deletions(-)

diff --git a/doc/lispintro/emacs-lisp-intro.texi b/doc/lispintro/emacs-lisp-intro.texi
index 49916235fbf9..32ad07785c20 100644
--- a/doc/lispintro/emacs-lisp-intro.texi
+++ b/doc/lispintro/emacs-lisp-intro.texi
@@ -17358,15 +17358,14 @@ Keymaps
 (global-set-key "\C-x\C-b" 'buffer-menu)
 @end smallexample
 
-Mode-specific keymaps are bound using the @code{define-key} function,
+Mode-specific keymaps are bound using the @code{keymap-set} function,
 which takes a specific keymap as an argument, as well as the key and
-the command.  For example, my @file{.emacs} file contains the
-following expression to bind the @code{texinfo-insert-@@group} command
-to @kbd{C-c C-c g}:
+the command.  For example, the following expression binds the
+@code{texinfo-insert-@@group} command to @kbd{C-c C-c g}:
 
 @smallexample
 @group
-(define-key texinfo-mode-map "\C-c\C-cg" 'texinfo-insert-@@group)
+(keymap-set texinfo-mode-map "C-c C-c g" 'texinfo-insert-@group)
 @end group
 @end smallexample
 
@@ -17396,7 +17395,7 @@ Keymaps
 write a function to insert a word; but I prefer key strokes consistent
 with other Texinfo mode key bindings.)
 
-You will see numerous @code{define-key} expressions in
+You will see numerous @code{keymap-set} expressions in
 @file{loaddefs.el} as well as in the various mode libraries, such as
 @file{cc-mode.el} and @file{lisp-mode.el}.
 
-- 
2.47.1

bug#74983: [PATCH] Use `keymap-set' instead of `define-key' in emacs lisp intro

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Hong Xu <hong@topbug.net>
> Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2024 14:36:29 -0800
> 
> * Since `define-key' is considered legacy and we encourage `keymap-set'
>   now.

Thanks.  But the second chunk is not really right, since we have many
more define-key there than keymap-set.

So my suggestion is not to _replace_ define-key with keymap-set, but
instead describe _both_, explaining that as of Emacs 29 we are
migrating towards keymap-set, which is preferred.

Stefan, WDYT?

bug#74983: [PATCH] Use `keymap-set' instead of `define-key' in emacs lisp intro

[Stefan Kangas]

Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:

>> From: Hong Xu <hong@topbug.net>
>> Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2024 14:36:29 -0800
>>
>> * Since `define-key' is considered legacy and we encourage `keymap-set'
>>   now.
>
> Thanks.  But the second chunk is not really right, since we have many
> more define-key there than keymap-set.
>
> So my suggestion is not to _replace_ define-key with keymap-set, but
> instead describe _both_, explaining that as of Emacs 29 we are
> migrating towards keymap-set, which is preferred.
>
> Stefan, WDYT?

I'd tend to agree.  Users will have to recognize define-key for a long
time indeed, not just in our sources (which are relatively easily
fixable in comparison) but also in online forums, third-party packages,
and so on.

I didn't yet look at the patch though.

bug#74999: [PATCH v2] Recommend `keymap-set' instead of `define-key' in emacs lisp intro

[Hong Xu]

* Since `define-key' is considered legacy and we encourage `keymap-set'
  now.
---
 doc/lispintro/emacs-lisp-intro.texi | 24 +++++++++++++++++-------
 1 file changed, 17 insertions(+), 7 deletions(-)

diff --git a/doc/lispintro/emacs-lisp-intro.texi b/doc/lispintro/emacs-lisp-intro.texi
index 49916235fbf9..ba671e60ffcf 100644
--- a/doc/lispintro/emacs-lisp-intro.texi
+++ b/doc/lispintro/emacs-lisp-intro.texi
@@ -17358,11 +17358,21 @@ Keymaps
 (global-set-key "\C-x\C-b" 'buffer-menu)
 @end smallexample
 
-Mode-specific keymaps are bound using the @code{define-key} function,
+Mode-specific keymaps are bound using the @code{keymap-set} function,
 which takes a specific keymap as an argument, as well as the key and
-the command.  For example, my @file{.emacs} file contains the
-following expression to bind the @code{texinfo-insert-@@group} command
-to @kbd{C-c C-c g}:
+the command.  For example, the following expression binds the
+@code{texinfo-insert-@@group} command to @kbd{C-c C-c g}:
+
+@smallexample
+@group
+(keymap-set texinfo-mode-map "C-c C-c g" 'texinfo-insert-@@group)
+@end group
+@end smallexample
+
+While you are encouraged to use @code{keymap-set}, you likely would
+encounter @code{define-key} in various places. @code{define-key} is an
+older function to create keymaps, and is now considered legacy. The
+above key map can be rewritten in @code{define-key} as:
 
 @smallexample
 @group
@@ -17396,9 +17406,9 @@ Keymaps
 write a function to insert a word; but I prefer key strokes consistent
 with other Texinfo mode key bindings.)
 
-You will see numerous @code{define-key} expressions in
-@file{loaddefs.el} as well as in the various mode libraries, such as
-@file{cc-mode.el} and @file{lisp-mode.el}.
+You will see numerous @code{keymap-set} and @code{define-key}
+expressions in @file{loaddefs.el} as well as in the various mode
+libraries, such as @file{cc-mode.el} and @file{lisp-mode.el}.
 
 @xref{Key Bindings, , Customizing Key Bindings, emacs, The GNU Emacs
 Manual}, and @ref{Keymaps, , Keymaps, elisp, The GNU Emacs Lisp
-- 
2.47.1

bug#74999: [PATCH v2] Recommend `keymap-set' instead of `define-key' in emacs lisp intro

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Hong Xu <hong@topbug.net>
> Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2024 13:42:29 -0800
> 
> -Mode-specific keymaps are bound using the @code{define-key} function,
> +Mode-specific keymaps are bound using the @code{keymap-set} function,
>  which takes a specific keymap as an argument, as well as the key and
> -the command.  For example, my @file{.emacs} file contains the
> -following expression to bind the @code{texinfo-insert-@@group} command
> -to @kbd{C-c C-c g}:
> +the command.  For example, the following expression binds the
> +@code{texinfo-insert-@@group} command to @kbd{C-c C-c g}:
> +
> +@smallexample
> +@group
> +(keymap-set texinfo-mode-map "C-c C-c g" 'texinfo-insert-@@group)
> +@end group
> +@end smallexample
> +
> +While you are encouraged to use @code{keymap-set}, you likely would
> +encounter @code{define-key} in various places. @code{define-key} is an
> +older function to create keymaps, and is now considered legacy.

This should say that historically, Emacs used 'define-key', and
therefore you are likely to see 'define-key' in various places etc.
In addition "older function" is not really accurate: 'keymap-set'
calls 'define-key' internally, so 'define-key' will not disappear from
Emacs any time soon.  We just prefer using 'keymap-set' in Lisp
programs because it is higher-level.  So instead of saying "older
function", I think we should say "more low-level function".

Also, please make sure to leave two spaces between sentences, per our
conventions.

>                                                             The
> +above key map can be rewritten in @code{define-key} as:

Not "key map", but "key binding".  The example doesn't show a complete
key map, it only shows a single binding within a key map.  Since this
is an introductory manual, we must be very accurate and clear in our
text, to avoid confusing newcomers to Lisp, who are probably confused
already to begin with...

Thanks.

bug#74999: [PATCH v3] Recommend `keymap-set' instead of `define-key' in emacs lisp intro

[Hong Xu]

* Since `define-key' is considered legacy and we encourage `keymap-set'
  now.
---
 doc/lispintro/emacs-lisp-intro.texi | 25 ++++++++++++++++++-------
 1 file changed, 18 insertions(+), 7 deletions(-)

diff --git a/doc/lispintro/emacs-lisp-intro.texi b/doc/lispintro/emacs-lisp-intro.texi
index 49916235fbf9..b3b4141a3c5f 100644
--- a/doc/lispintro/emacs-lisp-intro.texi
+++ b/doc/lispintro/emacs-lisp-intro.texi
@@ -17358,11 +17358,22 @@ Keymaps
 (global-set-key "\C-x\C-b" 'buffer-menu)
 @end smallexample
 
-Mode-specific keymaps are bound using the @code{define-key} function,
+Mode-specific keymaps are bound using the @code{keymap-set} function,
 which takes a specific keymap as an argument, as well as the key and
-the command.  For example, my @file{.emacs} file contains the
-following expression to bind the @code{texinfo-insert-@@group} command
-to @kbd{C-c C-c g}:
+the command.  For example, the following expression binds the
+@code{texinfo-insert-@@group} command to @kbd{C-c C-c g}:
+
+@smallexample
+@group
+(keymap-set texinfo-mode-map "C-c C-c g" 'texinfo-insert-@@group)
+@end group
+@end smallexample
+
+While you are encouraged to use @code{keymap-set}, you likely would
+encounter @code{define-key} in various places.  Historically, keymaps
+are bound using a lower-level function, @code{define-key}, which
+is now considered legacy.  The above key binding can be rewritten using
+@code{define-key} as:
 
 @smallexample
 @group
@@ -17396,9 +17407,9 @@ Keymaps
 write a function to insert a word; but I prefer key strokes consistent
 with other Texinfo mode key bindings.)
 
-You will see numerous @code{define-key} expressions in
-@file{loaddefs.el} as well as in the various mode libraries, such as
-@file{cc-mode.el} and @file{lisp-mode.el}.
+You will see numerous @code{keymap-set} and @code{define-key}
+expressions in @file{loaddefs.el} as well as in the various mode
+libraries, such as @file{cc-mode.el} and @file{lisp-mode.el}.
 
 @xref{Key Bindings, , Customizing Key Bindings, emacs, The GNU Emacs
 Manual}, and @ref{Keymaps, , Keymaps, elisp, The GNU Emacs Lisp
-- 
2.47.1

bug#74999: [PATCH v3] Recommend `keymap-set' instead of `define-key' in emacs lisp intro

[Hong Xu]

References: <86y1098pvj.fsf@gnu.org> <20241221080552.259664-1-hong@topbug.net>
User-Agent: mu4e 1.12.8; emacs 29.4
Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2024 12:42:29 -0800

On 2024-12-21 Sat 00:03 GMT-08, Hong Xu <hong@topbug.net> wrote:

> * Since `define-key' is considered legacy and we encourage `keymap-set'
>   now.
> ---
>  doc/lispintro/emacs-lisp-intro.texi | 25 ++++++++++++++++++-------
>  1 file changed, 18 insertions(+), 7 deletions(-)
>
> <...>

In case you missed this, are you still interested in reviewing this patch?


-- 
Hong

bug#74999: [PATCH v3] Recommend `keymap-set' instead of `define-key' in emacs lisp intro

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Hong Xu <hong@topbug.net>
> Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2024 12:42:34 -0800
> 
> References: <86y1098pvj.fsf@gnu.org> <20241221080552.259664-1-hong@topbug.net>
> User-Agent: mu4e 1.12.8; emacs 29.4
> Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2024 12:42:29 -0800
> 
> On 2024-12-21 Sat 00:03 GMT-08, Hong Xu <hong@topbug.net> wrote:
> 
> > * Since `define-key' is considered legacy and we encourage `keymap-set'
> >   now.
> > ---
> >  doc/lispintro/emacs-lisp-intro.texi | 25 ++++++++++++++++++-------
> >  1 file changed, 18 insertions(+), 7 deletions(-)
> >
> > <...>
> 
> In case you missed this, are you still interested in reviewing this patch?

I didn't miss it.  It's in my queue.

bug#74999: [PATCH v3] Recommend `keymap-set' instead of `define-key' in emacs lisp intro

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Hong Xu <hong@topbug.net>
> Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2024 00:03:54 -0800
> 
> * Since `define-key' is considered legacy and we encourage `keymap-set'
>   now.
> ---
>  doc/lispintro/emacs-lisp-intro.texi | 25 ++++++++++++++++++-------
>  1 file changed, 18 insertions(+), 7 deletions(-)

Thanks.  I tried to install this, but the git-commit hook rejected the
commit because Subject line is too long:

  Line longer than 78 characters in commit message
  Commit aborted; please see the file CONTRIBUTE

Please format the patch using "git format-patch", and please commit
the patch locally before you do so (assuming you have the hooks in
your local clone), to make sure these problems are corrected before
you send the patch here.

More generally, global-set-key, discussed earlier in this section, is
also obsolete, and we nowadays prefer keymap-global-set instead.  So,
if we want to modernize this part of the Emacs Lisp Intro manual, I
think we should replace all the key-binding examples and the
surrounding text in the manual to use the new keymap-* functions.  It
makes little sense to replace only define-key and leave the rest as
they were.

Would you like to submit a patch that takes care of these issues in a
more thorough manner?

> +While you are encouraged to use @code{keymap-set}, you likely would
> +encounter @code{define-key} in various places.  Historically, keymaps
> +are bound using a lower-level function, @code{define-key}, which
> +is now considered legacy.

These two sentences should be in reverse order: first tell that
historically we used define-key, then say that the reader is
encouraged to use keymap-set.

Thanks.

bug#74999: [PATCH v2] Recommend `keymap-set' instead of `define-key' in emacs lisp intro

[Hong Xu]

On 2024-12-20 Fri 23:19 GMT-08, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> wrote:

>> From: Hong Xu <hong@topbug.net>
>> Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2024 13:42:29 -0800
>> 
>> -Mode-specific keymaps are bound using the @code{define-key} function,
>> +Mode-specific keymaps are bound using the @code{keymap-set} function,
>>  which takes a specific keymap as an argument, as well as the key and
>> -the command.  For example, my @file{.emacs} file contains the
>> -following expression to bind the @code{texinfo-insert-@@group} command
>> -to @kbd{C-c C-c g}:
>> +the command.  For example, the following expression binds the
>> +@code{texinfo-insert-@@group} command to @kbd{C-c C-c g}:
>> +
>> +@smallexample
>> +@group
>> +(keymap-set texinfo-mode-map "C-c C-c g" 'texinfo-insert-@@group)
>> +@end group
>> +@end smallexample
>> +
>> +While you are encouraged to use @code{keymap-set}, you likely would
>> +encounter @code{define-key} in various places. @code{define-key} is an
>> +older function to create keymaps, and is now considered legacy.
>
> This should say that historically, Emacs used 'define-key', and
> therefore you are likely to see 'define-key' in various places etc.
> In addition "older function" is not really accurate: 'keymap-set'
> calls 'define-key' internally, so 'define-key' will not disappear from
> Emacs any time soon.  We just prefer using 'keymap-set' in Lisp
> programs because it is higher-level.  So instead of saying "older
> function", I think we should say "more low-level function".
>
> Also, please make sure to leave two spaces between sentences, per our
> conventions.
>
>>                                                             The
>> +above key map can be rewritten in @code{define-key} as:
>
> Not "key map", but "key binding".  The example doesn't show a complete
> key map, it only shows a single binding within a key map.  Since this
> is an introductory manual, we must be very accurate and clear in our
> text, to avoid confusing newcomers to Lisp, who are probably confused
> already to begin with...
>

I agree, please see my follow-up patch.

-- 
Thanks,
Hong

bug#74983: [PATCH] Use `keymap-set' instead of `define-key' in emacs lisp intro

[Drew Adams via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors]

> So my suggestion is not to _replace_ define-key with keymap-set, but
> instead describe _both_, explaining that as of Emacs 29 we are
> migrating towards keymap-set, which is preferred.

+1.

bug#74983: [PATCH] Use `keymap-set' instead of `define-key' in emacs lisp intro

[Hong Xu]

On 2024-12-19 Thu 23:01 GMT-08, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> wrote:

>> From: Hong Xu <hong@topbug.net>
>> Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2024 14:36:29 -0800
>> 
>> * Since `define-key' is considered legacy and we encourage `keymap-set'
>>   now.
>
> Thanks.  But the second chunk is not really right, since we have many
> more define-key there than keymap-set.
>
> So my suggestion is not to _replace_ define-key with keymap-set, but
> instead describe _both_, explaining that as of Emacs 29 we are
> migrating towards keymap-set, which is preferred.

Thanks, I agree. I've made a followup patch. For some reason the
followup patch didn't attach to the Message ID of this thread and a new
bug 74999 was created.

-- 
Hong

bug#74983: [PATCH] Use `keymap-set' instead of `define-key' in emacs lisp intro

[Eli Zaretskii]

merge 74983 74999
thanks

> From: Hong Xu <hong@topbug.net>
> Cc: Stefan Kangas <stefankangas@gmail.com>,  74983@debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2024 13:50:15 -0800
> 
> On 2024-12-19 Thu 23:01 GMT-08, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> wrote:
> 
> >> From: Hong Xu <hong@topbug.net>
> >> Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2024 14:36:29 -0800
> >> 
> >> * Since `define-key' is considered legacy and we encourage `keymap-set'
> >>   now.
> >
> > Thanks.  But the second chunk is not really right, since we have many
> > more define-key there than keymap-set.
> >
> > So my suggestion is not to _replace_ define-key with keymap-set, but
> > instead describe _both_, explaining that as of Emacs 29 we are
> > migrating towards keymap-set, which is preferred.
> 
> Thanks, I agree. I've made a followup patch. For some reason the
> followup patch didn't attach to the Message ID of this thread and a new
> bug 74999 was created.

I've now merged them.