From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Kangas Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#23033: 24.5; Lock file uses the same extension as the file it's locking Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2019 15:03:55 +0100 Message-ID: <878soqtqgk.fsf@marxist.se> References: <8jy49fnrpl.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <87pni3t129.fsf@marxist.se> <83d0e2cx8e.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: blaine.gmane.org; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:195.159.176.226"; logging-data="262219"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@blaine.gmane.org" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: 23033@debbugs.gnu.org, Michael Sloan To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Nov 08 15:05:23 2019 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1iT4t9-00165r-97 for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; 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Fri, 08 Nov 2019 09:05:02 -0500 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Stefan Kangas Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2019 14:05:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 23033 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs Original-Received: via spool by 23033-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B23033.15732218451323 (code B ref 23033); Fri, 08 Nov 2019 14:05:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 23033) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Nov 2019 14:04:05 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45058 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iT4rt-0000LF-3W for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Nov 2019 09:04:05 -0500 Original-Received: from host.gofardesign.uk ([208.79.239.190]:36942) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iT4rr-0000KR-EV for 23033@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Nov 2019 09:04:04 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=marxist.se; s=default; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:Date:References: In-Reply-To:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=i0jIkJHFeWfvMn55l44ksNOazRGwBR3Qcgvvl1+1uuE=; b=GVFUA74YXn4SUbppyYiRb4LLdV nMPGBUIBC8RZvP7NVavhc5AgfH3PqTw7A9Cqv6oB/lPX32NaHCdQIuqSihn5HQJVo0xTnWE5eHnwD OXRGoVQGeDBiqpdCG0GSRadXmEslXRDy5Z+VRxFX2QkM01mvcM0wI8DxbbdhfFPXGFzk=; Original-Received: from h-70-69.a785.priv.bahnhof.se ([155.4.70.69]:50560 helo=localhost) by host.gofardesign.uk with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1iT4rl-0006Zt-9R; Fri, 08 Nov 2019 08:03:57 -0600 In-Reply-To: <83d0e2cx8e.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Fri, 08 Nov 2019 15:29:37 +0200") X-OutGoing-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - host.gofardesign.uk X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - debbugs.gnu.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - marxist.se X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: host.gofardesign.uk: authenticated_id: stefan@marxist.se X-Authenticated-Sender: host.gofardesign.uk: stefan@marxist.se X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 209.51.188.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:171213 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: >> From: Michael Sloan >> Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2019 23:17:16 -0700 >> Cc: 23033@debbugs.gnu.org >> >> Correct, it is easy to fix in the tens of thousands of places where it can cause misbehavior :) But it is probably >> easier to fix it one place. > > Easier for whom? For humanity, taken as a whole, I think. :-) > These tools all have bugs: they choke on symlinks that point to > non-existent targets. There could be symlinks like that which have > nothing to do with Emacs's lock files. So from my POV we did those > tools a favor by exposing their bugs ;-) I see no reason to sweep > the bugs of those packages under the carpet so as to make it easier > for their developers to keep those bugs. I agree with the general sentiment, but consider the amount of bugs that Michael linked where the name "emacs" crops up. Appearances matters, to a certain extent. To my mind it would be preferable, in general, if we could avoid having a bunch of bug reports (because of someone elses sloppiness in this case, yes) where it initially and incorrectly may look like the culprit is "Emacs and its backwards practices". More importantly, I think, is what I mentioned before: this could inconvenience users trying to run stuff using "find -iname '*.c'" and the like, only to run into emacs lock files. I do expect the tools above to get their house in order and just Fix Their Bugs, but random users doing one-offs is a different question. That said, I don't feel super strongly about this. I consider it a minor cosmetic blemish. Best regards, Stefan Kangas