From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Marcin Borkowski Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#38002: Please remove this joke Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2019 17:23:08 +0100 Message-ID: <874kzna7mb.fsf@mbork.pl> References: <86bltxng32.fsf@inmotica-integral.es> <87k18k7ugd.fsf@gnus.org> <3th83oen14.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: blaine.gmane.org; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:195.159.176.226"; logging-data="207815"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@blaine.gmane.org" User-Agent: mu4e 1.1.0; emacs 27.0.50 Cc: bug-gnu-emacs , rms@gnu.org, 38002@debbugs.gnu.org To: nipponpost@airmail.cc Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Nov 01 17:24:15 2019 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1iQZif-000rtP-TM for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 01 Nov 2019 17:24:14 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:41196 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1iQZie-00087h-Og for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 01 Nov 2019 12:24:12 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:33542) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1iQZiX-00087Z-GT for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 01 Nov 2019 12:24:06 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iQZiW-0007H5-4L for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 01 Nov 2019 12:24:05 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]:48107) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iQZiW-0007H0-1J for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 01 Nov 2019 12:24:04 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iQZiV-0003PT-Qh for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 01 Nov 2019 12:24:03 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Marcin Borkowski Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2019 16:24:03 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 38002 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: patch fixed Original-Received: via spool by 38002-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B38002.157262540313042 (code B ref 38002); Fri, 01 Nov 2019 16:24:03 +0000 Original-Received: (at 38002) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 Nov 2019 16:23:23 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56928 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iQZhr-0003OI-D2 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 01 Nov 2019 12:23:23 -0400 Original-Received: from mail.mojserwer.eu ([195.110.48.8]:60482) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iQZhm-0003O3-8k for 38002@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 01 Nov 2019 12:23:22 -0400 Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.mojserwer.eu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C7D3E6AF0; Fri, 1 Nov 2019 17:23:15 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at mail.mojserwer.eu Original-Received: from mail.mojserwer.eu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.mojserwer.eu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Z1UL7q4eeMfM; Fri, 1 Nov 2019 17:23:12 +0100 (CET) Original-Received: from localhost (jeden09-dwa27.echostar.pl [213.156.109.227]) by mail.mojserwer.eu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 0A696E6302; Fri, 1 Nov 2019 17:23:12 +0100 (CET) In-reply-to: X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 209.51.188.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:170626 Archived-At: On 2019-11-01, at 16:24, nipponpost@airmail.cc wrote: > Deleting any jokes (including the one you're acquiescent to removal), > after accepting the persons work (the code that came along with the > joke) is extremely disrespectful to the person who did the programming > work along-side it. I haven't thought about it this way, but it seems to make sense. On closer inspection however, it only _seems_ to make sense, but it actually does not. Consider a bad joke a _bug_. We _want_ to remove bugs from Emacs (or any other software for that matter). The problem is, this one particular joke isn't bad at all, quite the opposite - irrespective whether one laughs at women or hacker's stereotype of women. (I think both interpretations are valid, and none is too offensive for my taste. The previous joke in the file is definitely more offensive, for instance.) IOW, I consider it a feature, not a bug. (And I repeated it to many of my friends, and we all had a good laugh.) > (And I mean /that/ person, including a time-period element (people > change, sadly, they're always better when they're younger: when > they're old they simply give up and obey).) This, too, is plainly false. In general, I would rather expect older people "better" (for some very specific meaning of "better", definitely not the moral one), due to experience. > If we liked them we would not waste our lives programming: we would > chase the women. There is a reason we have the time to do the free > software programing and media creation. The fact is we tacitly reject > them because they are tyrants (they would say they rejected us: just > as they attacked you, RMS, in the past saying you would "never get > laid" when you asked them to stop sending birth announcements to the > list), slave drivers, and banned everything we /actually/ wanted > (marrying /girls/ not /women/). This is not only false perspective, but it is plainly dangerous. Pitting men against women (or women against men) is exactly what feminists do, and it is one of the reasons feminism is such a poison for the society. I have a loving wife. I am a programmer. I can't see any contradiction here. (Happily, my wife is not a feminist - I wouldn't marry one, anyway.) BTW, I also know some female programmers. Not many, but still. Just my few cents. Best, -- Marcin Borkowski http://mbork.pl