From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Kangas Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#38051: 26.3; (elisp) `Insertion' use of verb "point" Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2019 01:36:10 +0100 Message-ID: <874kzfyzk5.fsf@marxist.se> References: <10c2ca80-b3d5-4efb-a2b1-5ded0cc8a14d@default> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: blaine.gmane.org; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:195.159.176.226"; logging-data="153104"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@blaine.gmane.org" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: 38051@debbugs.gnu.org To: Drew Adams Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Nov 08 01:37:13 2019 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1iSsH2-000dgu-Ah for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; 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Thu, 07 Nov 2019 19:37:02 -0500 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Stefan Kangas Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2019 00:37:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 38051 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs Original-Received: via spool by 38051-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B38051.157317338431540 (code B ref 38051); Fri, 08 Nov 2019 00:37:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 38051) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Nov 2019 00:36:24 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44159 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iSsGF-0008Cc-Bl for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 07 Nov 2019 19:36:23 -0500 Original-Received: from host.gofardesign.uk ([208.79.239.190]:53823) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iSsGB-0008CN-B2 for 38051@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 07 Nov 2019 19:36:19 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=marxist.se; s=default; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:Date:References: In-Reply-To:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=4IGwvl4pJWfo8sY5t4T9GCCsv3KcjslU4/jttkKW4fU=; b=oRkLMTHGpPOUUigqt8LF4biKL/ hJEVV2xzFlzdx2Y4dYHOj95/mA0VQkYD1UlL+8K45NLD+U5TTcB3OHbkLT8AZ+2qus6vb0YASldtc EXp+L1ZuxS62CFx3GxM2dSJdDb5gp0ZWO2Dp00MSxeovYyjF3OJBiY59mEpbgwMtsYNo=; Original-Received: from h-70-69.a785.priv.bahnhof.se ([155.4.70.69]:53740 helo=localhost) by host.gofardesign.uk with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1iSsG4-0003I1-BB; Thu, 07 Nov 2019 18:36:12 -0600 In-Reply-To: <10c2ca80-b3d5-4efb-a2b1-5ded0cc8a14d@default> (Drew Adams's message of "Sun, 3 Nov 2019 13:26:08 -0800 (PST)") X-OutGoing-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - host.gofardesign.uk X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - debbugs.gnu.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - marxist.se X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: host.gofardesign.uk: authenticated_id: stefan@marxist.se X-Authenticated-Sender: host.gofardesign.uk: stefan@marxist.se X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 209.51.188.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:171134 Archived-At: Drew Adams writes: > In a few places this node uses the verb "to point" to refer to a > marker's position, as in the marker points to position N. > > This is unfortunate, as it makes the text confusing - especially so > because the text in the node refers often to "point" meaning, well, > point, the position of the cursor. Too many occurrences of "point", and > in some cases with different possible meanings (some of which are wrong). I agree with what Eli said in his reply, and I don't, in general, see any risk for confusion. In any case, I would suggest that we treat this on a case by case basis, rather than a one size fits all. You have pointed to three cases below, and I hope that you will find the following observations useful. > It would be better to just talk about the position of the marker, or the > position the marker has, than to talk about the position the marker > points to. > > Examples: > > 1. When a marker points at the place of insertion... > > 2. Certain special functions such as `insert-before-markers' relocate > all such markers to point after the inserted text, regardless of the > markers' insertion type. > > 3. ...it relocates markers initially pointing at the insertion point, to > point after the inserted text. > > #1 is not confusing or ambiguous. #2 and #3 can confuse you into > thinking that "point after the inserted text" is maybe talking about > point (the cursor position) being (just) after the inserted text, as if > the text had another comma: "relocate all such markers to point, after > the inserted text,..." > > Yes, lack of that comma does make the meaning clear, unless you read the > text carefully you can be confused or misled. > > If the text instead speaks of the position of a marker, or speaks of > where a marker "is", instead of speaking of where a marker "points", the > problem disappears. E.g.: > > 1. When a marker is at the place of insertion... I actually think it's more clear to say "points at" here, because the marker is really an object in memory that "points at" a buffer location. It is not actually in the buffer itself. > 2. Certain special functions such as `insert-before-markers' relocate > all such markers to be after the inserted text, regardless of the > markers' insertion type. I think the original reads better, and is more clear, as above. > 3. ...it relocates markers that are initially at the insertion point, to > be after the inserted text. The same reasoning applies here. > (This node also talks about "code point", which is a third meaning for > "point". But that's unavoidable, and the text is not confusing.) Agreed. Best regards, Stefan Kangas