From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Michael Welsh Duggan Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#1305: All code that currently beeps should use visual bell instead Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2021 17:52:18 -0400 Message-ID: <874kg4vast.fsf@md5i.com> References: <009901c9421f$5bd0a6b0$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <00ad01c942a0$1f49ca60$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <87eef9qg81.fsf@gnus.org> <1869622e162377be79e9@heytings.org> <83bladw0dh.fsf@gnu.org> <87a6pxqdeg.fsf@gnus.org> <875z0lqcj4.fsf@gnus.org> <1869622e1602a39e56a6@heytings.org> <87a6pwvcrv.fsf@md5i.com> <1869622e165c625e097b@heytings.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="23541"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: 1305@debbugs.gnu.org, Michael Welsh Duggan , Stefan Kangas , jasonspiro4@gmail.com, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, Lars Ingebrigtsen To: Gregory Heytings Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Apr 17 23:53:49 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lXssu-00061J-9I for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 17 Apr 2021 23:53:48 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:52466 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lXsst-00057h-8q for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 17 Apr 2021 17:53:47 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:56044) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lXssA-00056c-Oc for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 17 Apr 2021 17:53:02 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]:33282) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lXssA-0003vT-HU for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 17 Apr 2021 17:53:02 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lXssA-0008VG-Fa for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 17 Apr 2021 17:53:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Michael Welsh Duggan Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2021 21:53:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 1305 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs Original-Received: via spool by 1305-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B1305.161869634932616 (code B ref 1305); Sat, 17 Apr 2021 21:53:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 1305) by debbugs.gnu.org; 17 Apr 2021 21:52:29 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44822 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lXsrd-0008U0-5L for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 17 Apr 2021 17:52:29 -0400 Original-Received: from md5i.com ([75.151.244.229]:50122) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lXsrb-0008Tm-Nt for 1305@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 17 Apr 2021 17:52:28 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=md5i.com; s=dkim; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date:References: Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe: List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=30FLAGuM7gNQzveyB1L1h9LtwLS58ow/ln3kTViBEk4=; b=fEFqCntoi+qJOepSef7pU+wZzM xHrPRe9dL3jMcuy24g0x13eAUGOJLkfiPcaVNFvCcjabq+cFp6E+vxCDUKiB+N6eguj9BhXhCEzI0 Bryoo4aVun0ETJHgIasMArdN8; Original-Received: from abode.md5i.com ([192.168.177.1] helo=miko) by md5i.com with esmtpsa (TLS1.3) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (Exim 4.94) (envelope-from ) id 1lXsrT-004nlV-9q; Sat, 17 Apr 2021 17:52:18 -0400 In-Reply-To: <1869622e165c625e097b@heytings.org> (Gregory Heytings's message of "Sat, 17 Apr 2021 21:17:08 +0000") X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:204273 Archived-At: Gregory Heytings writes: >>> I checked on macOS, and the only apps (at least, the only apps >>> among the ones I use) that repeatedly beep are the terminal and >>> Emacs. Other apps only beep when you do something "wrong", that is, >>> when they cannot do what you want (for example when you ask the >>> program to paste something when there is nothing to paste), or when >>> they open an important dialog. The terminal also beeps when it >>> cannot do what you want (for example when you press TAB and it >>> cannot complete the current input). In comparison, Emacs beeps a >>> lot. >> >> Really? I find that, in general, Emacs only beeps when it cannot do >> what I want (for example, C-n at EOB) or I cancel an operation (C-g >> or ESC ESC ESC). Under what other circumstances are you >> encountering beeping? >> > > For example, every time you press C-g, and every time you search for > something that it cannot find. When you press C-g Emacs does what you > want, so why beep? You could make an argument for that. Though ESC ESC ESC only beeps if it canceled something. > When you search for something that isn't there you already see that it > isn't there, so why beep? This one is easy. It's so I know that it isn't there, that nothing was found. It's much easier to hear the beep than to realize visually that it hasn't been found, and it is very useful to hear the beep before search wraps around. Moreover, I think this falls into the category you called: >>> when you do something "wrong", that is, when they cannot do what you >>> want. That said, I'm not going to argue about this very much. I just wanted to solicit an opinion. Outside of possibly C-g, I don't see that Emacs beeps any more than it should. If the default is changed, I can change it back on my end. -- Michael Welsh Duggan (md5i@md5i.com)