From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Philip Kaludercic Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#57907: 29.0.50; Using keywords with cl-loop Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2022 10:16:47 +0000 Message-ID: <874jx3fz3k.fsf@posteo.net> References: <87tu54dh3t.fsf@posteo.net> <87wna027sr.fsf@gnus.org> <87leqgdfz1.fsf@posteo.net> <87sfko2702.fsf@gnus.org> <874jx46eat.fsf@posteo.net> <87pmfryeiz.fsf@gnus.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="30959"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: 57907-done@debbugs.gnu.org To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Sep 19 12:31:01 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1oaE3I-0007o5-Px for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 19 Sep 2022 12:31:00 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:53394 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oaE3H-0002Bb-Py for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 19 Sep 2022 06:30:59 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:47682) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oaDpm-0001x6-NE for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 19 Sep 2022 06:17:02 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]:53416) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oaDpm-0003yc-CY for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 19 Sep 2022 06:17:02 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oaDpm-0007aZ-7Z for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 19 Sep 2022 06:17:02 -0400 Resent-From: Philip Kaludercic Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-To: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2022 10:17:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: cc-closed 57907 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs Mail-Followup-To: 57907@debbugs.gnu.org, philipk@posteo.net, philipk@posteo.net Original-Received: via spool by 57907-done@debbugs.gnu.org id=D57907.166358261929154 (code D ref 57907); Mon, 19 Sep 2022 10:17:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at 57907-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 Sep 2022 10:16:59 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:52494 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oaDpi-0007a9-LR for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 19 Sep 2022 06:16:58 -0400 Original-Received: from mout01.posteo.de ([185.67.36.65]:39151) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1oaDpe-0007Zs-Fq for 57907-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 19 Sep 2022 06:16:56 -0400 Original-Received: from submission (posteo.de [185.67.36.169]) by mout01.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 710F9240029 for <57907-done@debbugs.gnu.org>; Mon, 19 Sep 2022 12:16:48 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1663582608; bh=+svJWgJqc2LlyccypmxNWI5aRdlT6dQulU6XJvxwEkI=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Autocrypt:Date:From; b=ki3WcqVe/nRNBApVfYTu5iGUsLe04v1hmejBOp+bchsKqrT6xnLNBS5xpQoz6CxEA d29CyZP5NruSgf0/4AtoxHGpjWPimJMaYGP9viqYTWpsT/eTf3O72kFcacATF903Xf QLI5+VNYx15FPdlksD7aBG+dJv/znY2efgn052kfpu2i7nh5V29ITr8WcNCiv0ibzb QKNChEhfYDb08bk4w6LQ6sIsGIQ8H5B8MD7iU4Oy9vt/+uM5AoSfVD+y2NJkqep3Bj GoNmVFMbCESqH/bLTA3oGMjisIQexLod+vHgeN3KtU8hTzaYXEp3G2aUpqMoG1y1VH qY7uOG7YDDGQw== Original-Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4MWLFC45NYz9rxR; Mon, 19 Sep 2022 12:16:47 +0200 (CEST) In-Reply-To: <87pmfryeiz.fsf@gnus.org> (Lars Ingebrigtsen's message of "Mon, 19 Sep 2022 10:06:12 +0200") Autocrypt: addr=philipk@posteo.net; prefer-encrypt=nopreference; keydata= mDMEYHHqUhYJKwYBBAHaRw8BAQdAp3GdmYJ6tm5McweY6dEvIYIiry+Oz9rU4MH6NHWK0Ee0QlBo aWxpcCBLYWx1ZGVyY2ljIChnZW5lcmF0ZWQgYnkgYXV0b2NyeXB0LmVsKSA8cGhpbGlwa0Bwb3N0 ZW8ubmV0PoiQBBMWCAA4FiEEDM2H44ZoPt9Ms0eHtVrAHPRh1FwFAmBx6lICGwMFCwkIBwIGFQoJ CAsCBBYCAwECHgECF4AACgkQtVrAHPRh1FyTkgEAjlbGPxFchvMbxzAES3r8QLuZgCxeAXunM9gh io0ePtUBALVhh9G6wIoZhl0gUCbQpoN/UJHI08Gm1qDob5zDxnIHuDgEYHHqUhIKKwYBBAGXVQEF AQEHQNcRB+MUimTMqoxxMMUERpOR+Q4b1KgncDZkhrO2ql1tAwEIB4h4BBgWCAAgFiEEDM2H44Zo Pt9Ms0eHtVrAHPRh1FwFAmBx6lICGwwACgkQtVrAHPRh1Fw1JwD/Qo7kvtib8jy7puyWrSv0MeTS g8qIxgoRWJE/KKdkCLEA/jb9b9/g8nnX+UcwHf/4VfKsjExlnND3FrBviXUW6NcB X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:243066 Archived-At: Lars Ingebrigtsen writes: > Philip Kaludercic writes: > >> I phrased that clumsily -- while it is a new language, it doesn't always >> have to feel like one. > > And I'm saying that that feeling is a misleading feeling -- we're > leading the users down the garden path. > >> E.g. the repeat-collect example I gave before. >> If you *can* use keywords, you *can* make some cl-loop invocations >> appear to be a macro or a function call with keyword-arguments. >> >> But of course this wouldn't be the case, as the macro should stay >> backwards compatible. > > I understand that. But it means that the stated rationale for this > change does the users a disservice. > > So I'm against extending cl-loop in this way. Gerd has explained why > it works this way in Common Lisp (because CL doesn't have any other > choice because that's the way the language works), but we should not > shoehorn in this accident into Emacs, too. While it might have had been an accident initially, I don't think it has to be considered such. As I said, there are reasons like syntax highlighting for preferring keyword-symbols. But if you don't think this is a good idea, I'll go ahead and close the issue.