From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Ihor Radchenko Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#61325: 30.0.50; Jokes in GNUS manual Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2023 14:37:32 +0000 Message-ID: <873577570z.fsf@localhost> References: <87ttzy7pg1.fsf@localhost> <87wn4u6xj0.fsf@yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="37921"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Po Lu , 61325@debbugs.gnu.org To: rms@gnu.org Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Feb 15 15:38:28 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1pSIvU-0009gR-0U for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 15 Feb 2023 15:38:28 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pSIv6-0005al-Cy; Wed, 15 Feb 2023 09:38:04 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pSIv4-0005a7-Lb for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 15 Feb 2023 09:38:02 -0500 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pSIv4-0005Ud-Ch for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 15 Feb 2023 09:38:02 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pSIv4-00053g-9H for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 15 Feb 2023 09:38:02 -0500 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Ihor Radchenko Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2023 14:38:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 61325 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs Original-Received: via spool by 61325-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B61325.167647183219355 (code B ref 61325); Wed, 15 Feb 2023 14:38:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 61325) by debbugs.gnu.org; 15 Feb 2023 14:37:12 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58386 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pSIuF-000527-Uc for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 15 Feb 2023 09:37:12 -0500 Original-Received: from mout01.posteo.de ([185.67.36.65]:33747) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pSIuB-00051o-Tp for 61325@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 15 Feb 2023 09:37:10 -0500 Original-Received: from submission (posteo.de [185.67.36.169]) by mout01.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1C1D0240035 for <61325@debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 15 Feb 2023 15:37:01 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1676471822; bh=kuJ9HOOcgH86/94L4El+PtI/O1DDJ0I2hIK8BAQZEZY=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:From; b=oXRqGTJ64B4HyYi+8c/kDlHzpLwmOf/R+AFU5L4tQRRqyXjjRVP8jjw0+8U+JRV/7 zf87Vj8uQ9I9o7Y40qF8/iOuolSTs8sV8y0Hje4xQc6ZKTjj5zRHKiOOYGWQgSpRR1 x9dpprqxz+VQN1SM2BFXXdihw2DdDvCZg5oOHNvqBLQ6n4iFPJ2QYWsiufSQDQ8XHP oqJ4IyMfEwHuYy1LDBW23cdbA88Ri94cpT8FPLtls7qJnUPidVaEP2ZTv3uPyZKBXc Q6UrIZ9n3PW49WH07FqrKVNAsShahzUVbFGayARirHc6MQ9V1JZq8agvY/xM5koRHR Bh/MQOnCnjoYQ== Original-Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4PH0yg5vd9z9rxR; Wed, 15 Feb 2023 15:36:58 +0100 (CET) In-Reply-To: X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:255721 Archived-At: Richard Stallman writes: > > > 3.15 Exiting Gnus has > > > > > > Note: > > > > > > Miss Lisa Cannifax, while sitting in English class, felt her feet > > > go numbly heavy and herself fall into a hazy trance as the boy > > > sitting behind her drew repeated lines with his pencil across the > > > back of her plastic chair. > > > > > > I am not sure if it is a joke. I only feel confused about what > > > information this note is trying to convey. Also, at least one other user > > > find this section insulting. > > I can't see what in this a reader might consider insulting. Upon checking again with the person who initially reported the issue with this particular note, I found that the part about insulting was rather theoretical. The argument was that someone who had bad experiences with bullying might feel insulted. I now find such argument insufficient to call the note insulting. It is not the only problem with this note though. > I can't see what in this a reader might consider funny. > I can't make sense of it at all. I had the same feeling upon reading section 3.15. Now, when it was pointed that this is supposed to be a joke, I can see that it is trying to play around the concept of "suspend". > We owe no special consideration to people who try to impose their > unrelated hgypersensitivities on others. They are demanding power > which nobody should have. I can see the point, but does it apply to well-known sensitive topics, like sex, races, politics, etc? If such a topic must be mentioned as a part of technical description, I see no problem with mentioning such topics out of necessity. However, jokes in the manual are supposed to either raise positive feelings or at least be neutral. If we know in advance that a significant number of people will be annoyed by certain kinds of jokes, are such jokes worth it? > However, jokes that make people feel mocked _because they use Gnus_ > are unfriendly to our users. We should remove those. May you elaborate? Reading the manual is a part of using Gnus. Or do you mean that statements deliberately attacking/mocking people who use Gnus (or certain parts/functions in Gnus) should be avoided? -- Ihor Radchenko // yantar92, Org mode contributor, Learn more about Org mode at . Support Org development at , or support my work at