From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Xiyue Deng Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#67669: 29.1; Drop text suggesting using `and' to replace `if' Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2023 12:37:58 -0800 Message-ID: <8734wdu4t5.fsf@debian-hx90.lan> References: <87v89buhpl.fsf@debian-hx90.lan> <83sf4e34s8.fsf@gnu.org> <87r0jytm58.fsf@debian-hx90.lan> <83a5qm2u8v.fsf@gnu.org> <87fs0ducme.fsf@debian-hx90.lan> <83v89928xe.fsf@gnu.org> <87bkb1u6tv.fsf@debian-hx90.lan> <83plzh225a.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="13637"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Cc: 67669-done@debbugs.gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Dec 07 21:39:08 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1rBL9H-0003Ha-0O for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 07 Dec 2023 21:39:07 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rBL92-0005yv-CW; Thu, 07 Dec 2023 15:38:52 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rBL90-0005yL-Np for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 07 Dec 2023 15:38:50 -0500 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:5::43]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rBL90-0005cb-4t for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 07 Dec 2023 15:38:50 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rBL9C-00023i-BR for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 07 Dec 2023 15:39:02 -0500 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Xiyue Deng Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2023 20:39:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 67669 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs Original-Received: via spool by 67669-done@debbugs.gnu.org id=D67669.17019815057854 (code D ref 67669); Thu, 07 Dec 2023 20:39:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 67669-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Dec 2023 20:38:25 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43230 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rBL8a-00022c-Jd for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 07 Dec 2023 15:38:24 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-pf1-x42b.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::42b]:48183) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rBL8U-00022C-5Y for 67669-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 07 Dec 2023 15:38:22 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-pf1-x42b.google.com with SMTP id d2e1a72fcca58-6cc02e77a9cso969378b3a.0 for <67669-done@debbugs.gnu.org>; Thu, 07 Dec 2023 12:38:05 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1701981479; x=1702586279; darn=debbugs.gnu.org; h=mime-version:user-agent:message-id:date:references:in-reply-to :subject:cc:to:from:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=WeNAkywAMVdu11KMgbFhWGkKXXkbTPqPYshB4y0AMHo=; b=NdyK7c5s/xze7jxoZHLnzd0BnjFU1kSwtuqp68141Sj/3XOqn17x+H5uAxToixmHm4 +qe1es+9Vr2g6y/Hd1h0QWZCrjQSAK3LLd/obFabjvFiOfkiGc6bRfl3+tP8zdkkydjt 4jqW35U10IZNLrIn1pFW6bYrcG0sPqe3K+/coh7L1lXfr7ivgqpssosFsNV1lyzD0Vfl k6l0NIhFWDcTBNk18RWte5gYYImK2nkVIkuUYIRPFmSedBgnQlJUjX16xRyPyp20Vu0W gjXW43x0ko0GDJXcCXnf3WMCtHyLz+29gWNxRtspAmvrNZCxHSzkawxjlLf2P/QulxqW rmcw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1701981479; x=1702586279; h=mime-version:user-agent:message-id:date:references:in-reply-to :subject:cc:to:from:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=WeNAkywAMVdu11KMgbFhWGkKXXkbTPqPYshB4y0AMHo=; b=OVE8uBffGQ4ChA927HhXlQkFhVUOPjybIPLvqSt2Kc8HwzlTY+UbPFVptMDjyPWL0n 50OoXFRRo/nGP2XKBYKnZf5x/OiZEyk2qaL2/958TSj/MF/myQeaRZZLAt/fNH+FOkrm 63tKNReqvxBDmU+DwNl9gV9fXle9A5rT0iNbBbHpzMzmCAxiHXwxftR0UpK3+h7GOV4F LBegf+3rvDtaKKMQWBqzG1FpP5vnmChRErdTJPsC31tQlRQetyXRa9laH3Y2uootSFKO QG8tG5+lpQH2c+V3+zJNsWHwiiCFJTYHZpk9FCqWDZ2gvWLfgUNyYNwyoHRf3qgSpmCu DSeA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YxjCcBMxf7Glms+G2MuGZp4GNVOOuGUtl8V53YC+GhWcbJU2Rq4 AM6+MpGYPm+kWPm/Esx40E6So1gNONh1XQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IEh104Wa1oEfbVUee5OjnEGbE7avNZvlWDXndMNULvGPuBKB7pJJaaVnhmc94vy9xPkBWGEPg== X-Received: by 2002:a05:6a00:194f:b0:68f:d1a7:1a3a with SMTP id s15-20020a056a00194f00b0068fd1a71a3amr3760135pfk.8.1701981479345; Thu, 07 Dec 2023 12:37:59 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from debian-hx90 (2603-8000-a400-0cdc-93f0-c81c-5fa0-c77c.res6.spectrum.com. [2603:8000:a400:cdc:93f0:c81c:5fa0:c77c]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id t2-20020a62d142000000b006ce538550bbsm210459pfl.74.2023.12.07.12.37.58 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Thu, 07 Dec 2023 12:37:59 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <83plzh225a.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Thu, 07 Dec 2023 22:22:57 +0200") X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:275704 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: >> From: Xiyue Deng >> Cc: 67669-done@debbugs.gnu.org >> Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2023 11:54:20 -0800 >> >> Eli Zaretskii writes: >> >> > Sorry, I don't understand what you mean by "guarding a side effect", >> >> I was referring to whether we care about and use the result of the >> statement/function call. In `and' we do, in `if' we don't and we just >> use the side effect. > > But that's not true. 'if' does return a value, and we do use it. > Consider this random example: > > (defsubst posn-area (position) > [...] > (let ((area (if (consp (nth 1 position)) > (car (nth 1 position)) > (nth 1 position)))) > (and (symbolp area) area))) > > Here we bind 'area' to the value returned by 'if'. Well if we use `if' with else then yes. Actually as Drew pointed out this suggestion makes more sense if we are comparing `and' and `when' (a.k.a. if without else), but point taken. > >> As I was just trying to argue just "a bit", I won't be insisting either. >> Thanks for listening, and let me close this. > > Thanks. -- Xiyue Deng