bug#9248: 23.2; Welcome screen

bug#9248: 23.2; Welcome screen

[Jean-Marc Fran=e7ois]

When starting emacs with a filename as a command line parameter, the
"Welcome to GNU Emacs" screen is displayed along the buffer that
displays the content of the said file.  I guess you consider it a
"feature", but please be aware that I find it very annoying.  Is it wise
to set this as the default?

Best,
JM


In GNU Emacs 23.2.1 (i686-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 2.24.4)
 of 2011-04-04 on rothera, modified by Debian
Windowing system distributor `The X.Org Foundation', version 11.0.11001000
configured using `configure  '--build' 'i686-linux-gnu' '--build' 'i686-linux-gnu' '--prefix=/usr' '--sharedstatedir=/var/lib' '--libexecdir=/usr/lib' '--localstatedir=/var/lib' '--infodir=/usr/share/info' '--mandir=/usr/share/man' '--with-pop=yes' '--enable-locallisppath=/etc/emacs23:/etc/emacs:/usr/local/share/emacs/23.2/site-lisp:/usr/local/share/emacs/site-lisp:/usr/share/emacs/23.2/site-lisp:/usr/share/emacs/site-lisp:/usr/share/emacs/23.2/leim' '--with-x=yes' '--with-x-toolkit=gtk' '--with-toolkit-scroll-bars' 'build_alias=i686-linux-gnu' 'CFLAGS=-DDEBIAN -g -O2' 'LDFLAGS=-g' 'CPPFLAGS=''

Important settings:
  value of $LC_ALL: nil
  value of $LC_COLLATE: nil
  value of $LC_CTYPE: nil
  value of $LC_MESSAGES: nil
  value of $LC_MONETARY: nil
  value of $LC_NUMERIC: nil
  value of $LC_TIME: nil
  value of $LANG: en_US.UTF-8
  value of $XMODIFIERS: nil
  locale-coding-system: utf-8-unix
  default enable-multibyte-characters: t

Major mode: Fundamental

Minor modes in effect:
  tooltip-mode: t
  mouse-wheel-mode: t
  tool-bar-mode: t
  menu-bar-mode: t
  file-name-shadow-mode: t
  global-font-lock-mode: t
  blink-cursor-mode: t
  auto-encryption-mode: t
  auto-compression-mode: t
  line-number-mode: t
  transient-mark-mode: t

Recent input:
<help-echo> <help-echo> <help-echo> <help-echo> <down-mouse-1> 
<mouse-1> C-h <down-mouse-1> <drag-mouse-1> <down-mouse-1> 
<mouse-1> M-x r e p o <tab> r t <tab> <return>

Recent messages:
Loading /etc/emacs/site-start.d/50dictionaries-common.el (source)...
Loading debian-ispell...
Loading /var/cache/dictionaries-common/emacsen-ispell-default.el (source)...done
Loading debian-ispell...done
Loading /var/cache/dictionaries-common/emacsen-ispell-dicts.el (source)...done
Loading /etc/emacs/site-start.d/50dictionaries-common.el (source)...done
Loading /etc/emacs/site-start.d/50psvn.el (source)...done
For information about GNU Emacs and the GNU system, type C-h C-a.
Loading vc-svn...done
Making completion list...

Load-path shadows:
/usr/share/emacs/23.2/site-lisp/debian-startup hides /usr/share/emacs/site-lisp/debian-startup
/usr/share/emacs23/site-lisp/dictionaries-common/flyspell hides /usr/share/emacs/23.2/lisp/textmodes/flyspell
/usr/share/emacs23/site-lisp/dictionaries-common/ispell hides /usr/share/emacs/23.2/lisp/textmodes/ispell

Features:
(shadow sort mail-extr message sendmail regexp-opt ecomplete rfc822 mml
mml-sec password-cache mm-decode mm-bodies mm-encode mailcap mail-parse
rfc2231 rfc2047 rfc2045 qp ietf-drums mailabbrev nnheader gnus-util
netrc time-date mm-util mail-prsvr gmm-utils wid-edit mailheader canlock
sha1 hex-util hashcash mail-utils emacsbug help-mode easymenu view
vc-dispatcher vc-svn server tooltip ediff-hook vc-hooks lisp-float-type
mwheel x-win x-dnd font-setting tool-bar dnd fontset image fringe
lisp-mode register page menu-bar rfn-eshadow timer select scroll-bar
mldrag mouse jit-lock font-lock syntax facemenu font-core frame cham
georgian utf-8-lang misc-lang vietnamese tibetan thai tai-viet lao
korean japanese hebrew greek romanian slovak czech european ethiopic
indian cyrillic chinese case-table epa-hook jka-cmpr-hook help simple
abbrev loaddefs button minibuffer faces cus-face files text-properties
overlay md5 base64 format env code-pages mule custom widget
hashtable-print-readable backquote make-network-process dbusbind
system-font-setting font-render-setting gtk x-toolkit x multi-tty emacs)

bug#9248: 23.2; Welcome screen

[Vijay Lakshminarayanan]

jmfranc@jmfranc-laptop.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-tickle-me
(Jean-Marc Fran=e7ois) writes:

> When starting emacs with a filename as a command line parameter, the
> "Welcome to GNU Emacs" screen is displayed along the buffer that
> displays the content of the said file.  I guess you consider it a
> "feature", but please be aware that I find it very annoying.  Is it wise
> to set this as the default?
>
> Best,
> JM
>

[snip]

FWIW, I agree that this is a bug.  I don't encounter the OP's scenario
often (emacsclient FTW) but the times I do, the welcome screen is
extremely annoying.  (Typically I encounter said scenario when I need to
sudo edit some file and obviously emacs is the only choice.)

-- 
Cheers
~vijay

Gnus should be more complicated.

bug#9248: 23.2; Welcome screen

[Antoine Levitt]

06/08/11 17:13, Vijay Lakshminarayanan
> jmfranc@jmfranc-laptop.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-tickle-me
> (Jean-Marc Fran=e7ois) writes:
>
>> When starting emacs with a filename as a command line parameter, the
>> "Welcome to GNU Emacs" screen is displayed along the buffer that
>> displays the content of the said file.  I guess you consider it a
>> "feature", but please be aware that I find it very annoying.  Is it wise
>> to set this as the default?
>>
>> Best,
>> JM
>>
>
> [snip]
>
> FWIW, I agree that this is a bug.  I don't encounter the OP's scenario
> often (emacsclient FTW) but the times I do, the welcome screen is
> extremely annoying.  (Typically I encounter said scenario when I need to
> sudo edit some file and obviously emacs is the only choice.)

I also agree. The splash screen itself is fine (can be quite easily
disabled, with pointers on how to it), but it makes less sense to
display it when emacs is invoked with a filename (or maybe display it
only the first time, or add a very visible direct link to disable it, or
something).

FWIW, what I do find incredibly obnoxious and patronizing are the
safeguards around inhibit-startup-screen and
inhibit-startup-echo-area-message. Trying to forbid system
administrators to inhibit the splash screen in such a petty way is just
wrong. Another grip I have with the splash screen is the "one component
of the GNU/Linux operating system." being displayed on linux boxes, and
"one component of the GNU operating system." on other OSes. This is
wrong on many levels, but there's no use talking about it so I'll just
shut up and stop ranting now.

bug#9248: 23.2; Welcome screen

[David De La Harpe Golden]

 > When starting emacs with a filename as a command line parameter, the
 > "Welcome to GNU Emacs" screen is displayed along the buffer that
 > displays the content of the said file.  I guess you consider it a
 > "feature", but please be aware that I find it very annoying.

You can turn it off. The option to hide the startup screen permanently 
is actually presented on the startup screen, just sets the customization 
  inhibit-startup-screen, or you can use

M-x customize-variable inhibit-startup-screen

directly.

 > Is it wise to set this as the default?

Not something I tend to use, but it's not much different to the getting 
started tips a bunch of other gui applications pop up by default, shrug.

bug#9248: 23.2; Welcome screen

[Stefan Kangas]

jmfranc@jmfranc-laptop.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-tickle-me
(Jean-Marc Fran=e7ois) writes:

> When starting emacs with a filename as a command line parameter, the
> "Welcome to GNU Emacs" screen is displayed along the buffer that
> displays the content of the said file.  I guess you consider it a
> "feature", but please be aware that I find it very annoying.  Is it wise
> to set this as the default?

When I run "emacs -Q foobar", it only shows the contents on foobar,
and not the splash screen.

I do get a message saying "For information about GNU Emacs and the GNU
system, type C-h C-a."

So I guess this behaviour has been changed?

Best regards,
Stefan Kangas

bug#9248: 23.2; Welcome screen

[Noam Postavsky]

Stefan Kangas <stefan@marxist.se> writes:

> jmfranc@jmfranc-laptop.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-tickle-me
> (Jean-Marc Fran=e7ois) writes:
>
>> When starting emacs with a filename as a command line parameter, the
>> "Welcome to GNU Emacs" screen is displayed along the buffer that
>> displays the content of the said file.  I guess you consider it a
>> "feature", but please be aware that I find it very annoying.  Is it wise
>> to set this as the default?
>
> When I run "emacs -Q foobar", it only shows the contents on foobar,
> and not the splash screen.

-Q skips the splash screen, try -q instead.

bug#9248: 23.2; Welcome screen

[Stefan Kangas]

Noam Postavsky <npostavs@gmail.com> writes:

>> When I run "emacs -Q foobar", it only shows the contents on foobar,
>> and not the splash screen.
>
> -Q skips the splash screen, try -q instead.

Right, there it is.

I agree that this should be changed.  I expect a splash screen to be
shown only when I run a command without specifying any particular
file.  IME, this is what most other software does, and I see no reason
why Emacs should be different.

There is very important political information on that screen about
user freedom, GNU and the FSF.  Yes.  But this way of showing it to
users is too intrusive.  We win the fight against proprietary software
also by providing the best possible user experience.

Of course, this is easy to configure if you know what you're doing.
However, I think it gets to be an annoyance for beginning users well
before they even figure out how to do that.

---

Here's one data point:

I remember being frustrated by this when I first started using Emacs
15+ years ago.  It took me some time to figure out that you could turn
it off.  Weeks?  Months?  No idea.  Long enough that I still remember
it now.  Even after you start customizing Emacs, this is not
necessarily the first thing you think about configuring.  At least it
wasn't for me.

Best regards,
Stefan Kangas

bug#9248: 23.2; Welcome screen

[Stefan Kangas]

Stefan Kangas <stefan@marxist.se> writes:

> I agree that this should be changed.  I expect a splash screen to be
> shown only when I run a command without specifying any particular
> file.  IME, this is what most other software does, and I see no reason
> why Emacs should be different.

Catching up on emacs-devel, there is a thread on this particular
issue... where Stefan Monnier points to the "Dismiss this startup
screen" button.  That button quits the window and customizes
inhibit-startup-window to t.  This code seems to have been introduced
in 2007 by Chong Yidong (commit 22a58255).

Of course, I have never seen that button over the years.  I find that
your brain learns to filter out splash screens completely after a
while, which incidentally makes displaying them more often
counter-productive.

So, I don't think this changes my previous argument, but it does make
any need to change it less pressing.

Best regards,
Stefan Kangas

bug#9248: 23.2; Welcome screen

[Corwin Brust]

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Resending but to the whole list.  Oops.

TL;DR:  I think finding the simple button to disable splash-screen isn't so
easy.

On Sat, Jan 18, 2020 at 1:42 PM Corwin Brust <corwin@bru.st> wrote:

>
> Hi!
>
> On Sat, Jan 18, 2020 at 10:41 AM Stefan Kangas <stefan@marxist.se> wrote:
>
>> Stefan Kangas <stefan@marxist.se> writes:
>>
>> > I agree that this should be changed.  I expect a splash screen to be
>> > shown only when I run a command without specifying any particular
>> > file.  IME, this is what most other software does, and I see no reason
>> > why Emacs should be different.
>>
>> Catching up on emacs-devel, there is a thread on this particular
>> issue... where Stefan Monnier points to the "Dismiss this startup
>> screen" button.  That button quits the window and customizes
>> inhibit-startup-window to t.  This code seems to have been introduced
>> in 2007 by Chong Yidong (commit 22a58255).
>>
>> Of course, I have never seen that button over the years.  I find that
>> your brain learns to filter out splash screens completely after a
>> while, which incidentally makes displaying them more often
>> counter-productive.
>>
>
> I wonder if the reason neither you or nor I had seen this button is that
> Emacs doesn't usually show it to us. I'm looking at 1843 of ~startup.el~.
> I think the button to quickly disable splash only displays when concise is
> t as per:
>
> 1813:  (fancy-startup-screen &optional concise)
> ...
> Whereas within fancy-startup-tail we do this:
>
> 1771:  (when concise
>     (fancy-splash-insert
>      :face 'variable-pitch "\n"
>      :link `("Dismiss this startup screen"
>     ,(lambda (_button)
> (when startup-screen-inhibit-startup-screen
>  (customize-set-variable 'inhibit-startup-screen t)
>  (customize-mark-to-save 'inhibit-startup-screen)
>  (custom-save-all))
> (let ((w (get-buffer-window "*GNU Emacs*")))
>  (and w (not (one-window-p)) (delete-window w)))
> (kill-buffer "*GNU Emacs*")))
>      "  ")
>
> Meanwhile, this is called from `command-line-1' which starts around line
> 2233.
>
> It creates CONCISE based on the number of open buffers when called, e.g. 0
> (zero) --so not-concise-- when starting Emacs.  So no button for
> `inhibit-startup-screen' unless we open the spash screen "manually" one way
> or another.
>
> Maybe just always show the "inhibit splash" button?  Maybe this logic to
> display or not this button should be inverted?  Is it more likely I want to
> disable splash when I'm looking a fresh emacs or because I've called for
> the spash explicitly (maybe just to get at this button)?
>
> So, I don't think this changes my previous argument, but it does make
>> any need to change it less pressing.
>>
>
> I can also add that I've been using Emacs for 10+ years and found (setq
> inhibit-splash-screen t) for my init pleasure only a few months ago.  So
> I'm all good now ;)
>
> Regards,
>
> --
> *Corwin*
> *corwin@bru.st <corwin@bru.st>*
>


-- 
*Corwin*
612-217-1742
612-298-0615 (fax)
612-695-4276 (mobile)
*corwin.brust (skype)corwin@bru.st <corwin@bru.st>*

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bug#9248: 23.2; Welcome screen

[Corwin Brust]

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 Sorry again for my clumsiness with emails.


On Sat, Jan 18, 2020 at 1:44 PM Corwin Brust <corwin@bru.st> wrote:

> Resending but to the whole list.  Oops.
>
> TL;DR:  I think finding the simple button to disable splash-screen isn't
> so easy.
>

I forgot to call-out my Emacs RE source code line number relevance:   I'm
using GNU 26.3 on Win 32.  Only patch is to ERC around nick matching syntax
tables.  That said, please do see detail from me embedded below.


> On Sat, Jan 18, 2020 at 1:42 PM Corwin Brust <corwin@bru.st> wrote:
>
>>
>> Hi!
>>
>> On Sat, Jan 18, 2020 at 10:41 AM Stefan Kangas <stefan@marxist.se> wrote:
>>
>>> Stefan Kangas <stefan@marxist.se> writes:
>>>
>>> > I agree that this should be changed.  I expect a splash screen to be
>>> > shown only when I run a command without specifying any particular
>>> > file.  IME, this is what most other software does, and I see no reason
>>> > why Emacs should be different.
>>>
>>> Catching up on emacs-devel, there is a thread on this particular
>>> issue... where Stefan Monnier points to the "Dismiss this startup
>>> screen" button.  That button quits the window and customizes
>>> inhibit-startup-window to t.  This code seems to have been introduced
>>> in 2007 by Chong Yidong (commit 22a58255).
>>>
>>> Of course, I have never seen that button over the years.  I find that
>>> your brain learns to filter out splash screens completely after a
>>> while, which incidentally makes displaying them more often
>>> counter-productive.
>>>
>>
>> I wonder if the reason neither you or nor I had seen this button is that
>> Emacs doesn't usually show it to us. I'm looking at 1843 of ~startup.el~.
>> I think the button to quickly disable splash only displays when concise is
>> t as per:
>>
>> 1813:  (fancy-startup-screen &optional concise)
>> ...
>> Whereas within fancy-startup-tail we do this:
>>
>> 1771:  (when concise
>>     (fancy-splash-insert
>>      :face 'variable-pitch "\n"
>>      :link `("Dismiss this startup screen"
>>     ,(lambda (_button)
>> (when startup-screen-inhibit-startup-screen
>>  (customize-set-variable 'inhibit-startup-screen t)
>>  (customize-mark-to-save 'inhibit-startup-screen)
>>  (custom-save-all))
>> (let ((w (get-buffer-window "*GNU Emacs*")))
>>  (and w (not (one-window-p)) (delete-window w)))
>> (kill-buffer "*GNU Emacs*")))
>>      "  ")
>>
>> Meanwhile, this is called from `command-line-1' which starts around line
>> 2233.
>>
>> It creates CONCISE based on the number of open buffers when called, e.g.
>> 0 (zero) --so not-concise-- when starting Emacs.  So no button for
>> `inhibit-startup-screen' unless we open the spash screen "manually" one way
>> or another.
>>
>> Maybe just always show the "inhibit splash" button?  Maybe this logic to
>> display or not this button should be inverted?  Is it more likely I want to
>> disable splash when I'm looking a fresh emacs or because I've called for
>> the spash explicitly (maybe just to get at this button)?
>>
>> So, I don't think this changes my previous argument, but it does make
>>> any need to change it less pressing.
>>>
>>
>> I can also add that I've been using Emacs for 10+ years and found (setq
>> inhibit-splash-screen t) for my init pleasure only a few months ago.  So
>> I'm all good now ;)
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> --
>> *Corwin*
>> *corwin@bru.st <corwin@bru.st>*
>>
>
>
> --
> *Corwin*
> 612-217-1742
> 612-298-0615 (fax)
> 612-695-4276 (mobile)
> *corwin.brust (skype)corwin@bru.st <corwin@bru.st>*
>


-- 
*Corwin*
612-217-1742
612-298-0615 (fax)
612-695-4276 (mobile)
*corwin.brust (skype)corwin@bru.st <corwin@bru.st>*

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bug#9248: 23.2; Welcome screen

[Richard Stallman]

[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]

  > There is very important political information on that screen about
  > user freedom, GNU and the FSF.  Yes.  But this way of showing it to
  > users is too intrusive.  We win the fight against proprietary software
  > also by providing the best possible user experience.

We don't win anything for our cause if the users of our software
don't know what the cause is.

It used to be that people could easily use Emacs for years and
never have the faintest idea what we are fighting for.  Emacs
displayed this information only in circumstances which they never saw.
When I discovered that, I changed it to present that information in
more circumstances, so that all users would see it.

If it is slightly annoying to see this information when you already
know it, consider that that is a rather small sacrifice to make for
the cause of freedom.

-- 
Dr Richard Stallman
Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org)
Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)

bug#9248: 23.2; Welcome screen

[Stefan Kangas]

Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> writes:

>   > There is very important political information on that screen about
>   > user freedom, GNU and the FSF.  Yes.  But this way of showing it to
>   > users is too intrusive.  We win the fight against proprietary software
>   > also by providing the best possible user experience.
>
> We don't win anything for our cause if the users of our software
> don't know what the cause is.
>
> It used to be that people could easily use Emacs for years and
> never have the faintest idea what we are fighting for.  Emacs
> displayed this information only in circumstances which they never saw.
> When I discovered that, I changed it to present that information in
> more circumstances, so that all users would see it.
>
> If it is slightly annoying to see this information when you already
> know it, consider that that is a rather small sacrifice to make for
> the cause of freedom.

Those are some good points.  I think you convinced me that there is no
need to change this, although my preferences are slighly different.

Given the lack of support from other Emacs developers to change this
default, I think it's unlikely to ever happen.  Therefore, it would
probably make the most sense to close this bug as wontfix/notabug.

Best regards,
Stefan Kangas

bug#9248: 23.2; Welcome screen

[Stefan Kangas]

tags 9248 + notabug wontfix
close 9248
thanks

Stefan Kangas <stefan@marxist.se> writes:

> Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> writes:
>
>>   > There is very important political information on that screen about
>>   > user freedom, GNU and the FSF.  Yes.  But this way of showing it to
>>   > users is too intrusive.  We win the fight against proprietary software
>>   > also by providing the best possible user experience.
>>
>> We don't win anything for our cause if the users of our software
>> don't know what the cause is.
>>
>> It used to be that people could easily use Emacs for years and
>> never have the faintest idea what we are fighting for.  Emacs
>> displayed this information only in circumstances which they never saw.
>> When I discovered that, I changed it to present that information in
>> more circumstances, so that all users would see it.
>>
>> If it is slightly annoying to see this information when you already
>> know it, consider that that is a rather small sacrifice to make for
>> the cause of freedom.
>
> Those are some good points.  I think you convinced me that there is no
> need to change this, although my preferences are slighly different.
>
> Given the lack of support from other Emacs developers to change this
> default, I think it's unlikely to ever happen.  Therefore, it would
> probably make the most sense to close this bug as wontfix/notabug.

No further comments within 6 weeks, so I'm closing this bug now.

Best regards,
Stefan Kangas