From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Juri Linkov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#39138: 28.0.50; Add variables for shell command output buffer names Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2020 02:59:11 +0300 Organization: LINKOV.NET Message-ID: <871rkehvoo.fsf@mail.linkov.net> References: <878sm9u3m1.fsf@calancha-pc.dy.bbexcite.jp> <87v9hsrozk.fsf@gnus.org> <871rkf34cu.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <87d03y93v3.fsf@gnus.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="21623"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) Cc: Tino Calancha , 39138@debbugs.gnu.org To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Aug 11 02:45:17 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1k5IPl-0005Vv-2U for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 11 Aug 2020 02:45:17 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:33478 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1k5IPk-0005Kv-0M for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 10 Aug 2020 20:45:16 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:46354) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1k5IPW-0005Jw-RA for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 10 Aug 2020 20:45:02 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]:54658) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1k5IPW-0004ME-Fw for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 10 Aug 2020 20:45:02 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k5IPW-0006O7-E1 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 10 Aug 2020 20:45:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Juri Linkov Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2020 00:45:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 39138 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: moreinfo fixed patch Original-Received: via spool by 39138-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B39138.159710666324482 (code B ref 39138); Tue, 11 Aug 2020 00:45:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 39138) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Aug 2020 00:44:23 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37970 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k5IOt-0006Mo-0d for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 10 Aug 2020 20:44:23 -0400 Original-Received: from relay10.mail.gandi.net ([217.70.178.230]:34451) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k5IOr-0006M6-DH for 39138@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 10 Aug 2020 20:44:21 -0400 Original-Received: from mail.gandi.net (m91-129-102-47.cust.tele2.ee [91.129.102.47]) (Authenticated sender: juri@linkov.net) by relay10.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id A79A3240004; Tue, 11 Aug 2020 00:44:13 +0000 (UTC) In-Reply-To: <87d03y93v3.fsf@gnus.org> (Lars Ingebrigtsen's message of "Mon, 10 Aug 2020 12:45:04 +0200") X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:184612 Archived-At: >> Oh, I noticed that the patch provided by Tino removed all mentions of >> shell buffer names from the documentation. While technically this is fine, >> I tried to look from the point of view of users, and realized that it's >> highly unlikely that the users might be interested to know the name of >> the constant 'shell-command-buffer-name', whereas it's very important >> for users to learn that the default name of the shell output buffer is >> "*Shell Command Output*". > > I don't really see why? If the user is using one of these commands, of > course they'll see the buffer names themselves. Often they don't see the buffer names - when the shell output is less than 16 lines long, then the shell buffer is not displayed, so users need to know the shell buffer name to be able to switch to it. They need to learn the buffer name from the User Manual. > If they're writing code, they should be using 'shell-command-buffer-name', > and not the string "*Shell Command Output*". I completely agree that Emacs Lisp programmers need to know the new way of using the shell buffer name via the new constant to reduce typos in buffer names. So the new constant should be explained in the Emacs Lisp Reference Manual. But the problem is that these constants are currently described in the User Manual that make no sense to end users - users need to know the buffer names, not internal constant names.