From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#73709: 29.4; Doc of `file-newer-than-file-p' Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2024 08:56:30 +0300 Message-ID: <86y12vyygh.fsf@gnu.org> References: <86h69msbhi.fsf@gnu.org> <87set6aytj.fsf@web.de> <864j5l4d2x.fsf@gnu.org> <87v7y0kgl7.fsf@web.de> <861q0o2xbe.fsf@gnu.org> <87cyk7trma.fsf@web.de> Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="8552"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: 73709@debbugs.gnu.org, drew.adams@oracle.com To: Michael Heerdegen Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Oct 11 07:57:22 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1sz8eO-00024O-Uk for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; 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Fri, 11 Oct 2024 01:56:53 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sz8dd-0003ar-RR; Fri, 11 Oct 2024 01:56:33 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=QjyE+6Uja5iWSKlqB+uSfzZKcpkN6NGhNn2XuTQS/m4=; b=N881KKztBRKm HfRRTIhlz5OTW4Jwgu++xJhXz6jkpDdVqpRZJLVnV8e7CqyCyTuEbwa18iLj+y5QdRku3qbnestwv zPsl3cTBoL0dvl7P41LOyRgDVYunWyml4WCxeOmwBDkn6cyNctKr8nQ+aar8UzK3tTXtzRslNd4R8 ro4A7NEb5yl5ufLJF8OMyRIrNWubQj2dVffhVw9/MztgO7N9lWLoB2Ey0DoOuIqZX1SY6EWGhSBwA JV1RUgL0g5GjTdC9RLicrGbQT4StWWrPIbUM1LlwUlb2sQ4PTMAOjGzhU8tNeQJxnleyFw5ulefbr zVEFQ6PdpmDYqa8WGXKg2w==; In-Reply-To: <87cyk7trma.fsf@web.de> (message from Michael Heerdegen on Fri, 11 Oct 2024 02:23:09 +0200) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:293330 Archived-At: > From: Michael Heerdegen > Cc: 73709@debbugs.gnu.org, drew.adams@oracle.com > Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2024 02:23:09 +0200 > > Eli Zaretskii writes: > > > > Apart from that: if it is hard or not practical to describe what the > > > function returns in every case, we can instead try to describe major > > > use cases. > > > > That'd mean a lot of text to write to describe what should be clear > > enough, at least as far as Emacs is concerned. I don't think it's our > > job to describe how the various filesystems work. > > This is not what I suggested. My suggestion was to tell something like > "For example, this function is used to check whether a file should be > restored from an auto-safe file, or needs to be recompiled". This is > possible without describing how filesystems work, or how quantum > chromodynamics work. I'm okay with adding examples that people think might be useful, if all we do is mention them without going into details too much. To me, the 2 examples you mention sound almost trivial, but I nevertheless won't object to add some short text with such examples, if they help someone better understand the purpose of the function. > > Very well, but please remember your opinions in this matter, because > > if someone comes up asking for more details about "last modification > > times" (perhaps even Drew himself, e.g. because someone asked some > > question on SE), I will defer to you and Stefan to deal with the > > fallout. > > When you say "[...] should be clear enough": are you sure that the > misinterpretation as "file creation time" only can happen to me and to > Drew - because we are exceptionally stupid Emacs users? There's nothing stupid about that. Moreover, in some subtle situations this will be the exact meaning of "file newer". My point is different: that Lisp programmers should not think about this in terms of file attributes returned by the 'stat' system call, but as a higher-level abstraction. > If not: do you have any better idea? Better idea about what? > And: Sure can you ask for my help, but, with all respect, please not in > such a way, Eli. Sigh. Why do you have to interpret what I write in the worst possible way? It's possible that my dry humor is sometimes too dry, but there's nothing other than dry humor in what I wrote above. I'd expect everyone here would recognize that by now, but I guess not...