bug#71909: 30.0.60;

bug#71909: 30.0.60;

[Cecilio Pardo]

I'll be working on this, if no one else is.

bug#71909: 30.0.60;

[Eli Zaretskii]

> Date: Sat, 5 Oct 2024 14:28:35 +0200
> From: Cecilio Pardo <cpardo@imayhem.com>
> 
> 
> I'll be working on this, if no one else is.

Thanks in advance.

Btw, if you are looking for significant enhancements to Emacs on
Windows, then support for color fonts (which needs to use Direct2D,
AFAIU) will be greatly appreciated.

bug#71909: 30.0.60;

[Eli Zaretskii]

> Cc: 71909@debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Sat, 05 Oct 2024 15:33:39 +0300
> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>
> 
> > Date: Sat, 5 Oct 2024 14:28:35 +0200
> > From: Cecilio Pardo <cpardo@imayhem.com>
> > 
> > 
> > I'll be working on this, if no one else is.
> 
> Thanks in advance.

Btw, perhaps we should discuss the implementation ideas you have
first.  I'm guessing you are going to somehow map the clipboard
formats defined by Windows to MIME types, then I wonder what should we
do with the virtually open-ended set of Windows clipboard formats.

Or maybe you have other ideas?

bug#71909: 30.0.60;

[Cecilio Pardo]

On 05/10/2024 14:42, Eli Zaretskii wrote:

> Btw, perhaps we should discuss the implementation ideas you have
> first.  I'm guessing you are going to somehow map the clipboard
> formats defined by Windows to MIME types, then I wonder what should we
> do with the virtually open-ended set of Windows clipboard formats.
> 
> Or maybe you have other ideas?

Yes, I was thinking about mapping some of the formats, and ignoring the 
rest. Looking at the lisp files inside emacs, only these formats seem to 
be in use:

image/*
text/html (which is treated as text in sgml-mode)
x/special-\\(?:gnome\\|KDE\\|mate\\)-files

So CF_BITMAP and CF_HDROP, and maybe CF_HTML would cover all. Metafiles 
could be converted to bitmaps.

As for other formats, other than offer them as application/octet-stream, 
I don't know.

bug#71909: 30.0.60;

[Eli Zaretskii]

> Date: Sat, 5 Oct 2024 19:14:20 +0200
> Cc: 71909@debbugs.gnu.org
> From: Cecilio Pardo <cpardo@imayhem.com>
> 
> On 05/10/2024 14:42, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> 
> > Btw, perhaps we should discuss the implementation ideas you have
> > first.  I'm guessing you are going to somehow map the clipboard
> > formats defined by Windows to MIME types, then I wonder what should we
> > do with the virtually open-ended set of Windows clipboard formats.
> > 
> > Or maybe you have other ideas?
> 
> Yes, I was thinking about mapping some of the formats, and ignoring the 
> rest. Looking at the lisp files inside emacs, only these formats seem to 
> be in use:
> 
> image/*
> text/html (which is treated as text in sgml-mode)
> x/special-\\(?:gnome\\|KDE\\|mate\\)-files
> 
> So CF_BITMAP and CF_HDROP, and maybe CF_HTML would cover all. Metafiles 
> could be converted to bitmaps.
> 
> As for other formats, other than offer them as application/octet-stream, 
> I don't know.

If you invoke "M-: (gui-get-selection 'CLIPBOARD 'TARGETS) RET" after
copying something to the clipboard, you will see some very weird
format names there.  For the standard formats, we convert them to
something similar to what X Window system produces (see
w32-selection-targets), but the rest are returned as-is.  For example,
after copying an image from Firefox, I get this as the return value of
the above evaluation:

  [DataObject text/html HTML\ Format text/_moz_htmlinfo text/_moz_htmlcontext application/x-moz-file-promise-url application/x-moz-file-promise-dest-filename FILE_NAMES Preferred\ DropEffect application/x-moz-nativeimage DIB Ole\ Private\ Data BITMAP nil]

There's no image/* here, only DIB and BITMAP (which correspond to
CF_DIB and CF_BITMAP clipboard formats).  There are also a lot of
text/* formats, but they are all non-standard, except, perhaps,
text/html.  Do you have ideas how to select the proper format and how
to yank the data?

What do the x/special-* formats correspond to on Windows?

bug#71909: 30.0.60;

[Cecilio Pardo]

On 05/10/2024 21:31, Eli Zaretskii wrote:

> If you invoke "M-: (gui-get-selection 'CLIPBOARD 'TARGETS) RET" after
> copying something to the clipboard, you will see some very weird
> format names there.  For the standard formats, we convert them to
> something similar to what X Window system produces (see
> w32-selection-targets), but the rest are returned as-is.  For example,
> after copying an image from Firefox, I get this as the return value of
> the above evaluation:
> 
>    [DataObject text/html HTML\ Format text/_moz_htmlinfo text/_moz_htmlcontext application/x-moz-file-promise-url application/x-moz-file-promise-dest-filename FILE_NAMES Preferred\ DropEffect application/x-moz-nativeimage DIB Ole\ Private\ Data BITMAP nil]
> 
> There's no image/* here, only DIB and BITMAP (which correspond to
> CF_DIB and CF_BITMAP clipboard formats).  There are also a lot of
> text/* formats, but they are all non-standard, except, perhaps,
> text/html.  Do you have ideas how to select the proper format and how
> to yank the data?

> What do the x/special-* formats correspond to on Windows?

We would convert the BITMAP format to image/png, and FILE_NAMES to
x-special/gnome-copied-files, to be compatible with what org-mode does 
now. The offer to yank-media would then be text/html, image/png, and 
x-special/gnome-copied-files, ignoring the rest of formats.

bug#71909: 30.0.60;

[Eli Zaretskii]

> Date: Sat, 5 Oct 2024 23:24:09 +0200
> From: Cecilio Pardo <cpardo@imayhem.com>
> Cc: 71909@debbugs.gnu.org
> 
> On 05/10/2024 21:31, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> 
> > If you invoke "M-: (gui-get-selection 'CLIPBOARD 'TARGETS) RET" after
> > copying something to the clipboard, you will see some very weird
> > format names there.  For the standard formats, we convert them to
> > something similar to what X Window system produces (see
> > w32-selection-targets), but the rest are returned as-is.  For example,
> > after copying an image from Firefox, I get this as the return value of
> > the above evaluation:
> > 
> >    [DataObject text/html HTML\ Format text/_moz_htmlinfo text/_moz_htmlcontext application/x-moz-file-promise-url application/x-moz-file-promise-dest-filename FILE_NAMES Preferred\ DropEffect application/x-moz-nativeimage DIB Ole\ Private\ Data BITMAP nil]
> > 
> > There's no image/* here, only DIB and BITMAP (which correspond to
> > CF_DIB and CF_BITMAP clipboard formats).  There are also a lot of
> > text/* formats, but they are all non-standard, except, perhaps,
> > text/html.  Do you have ideas how to select the proper format and how
> > to yank the data?
> 
> > What do the x/special-* formats correspond to on Windows?
> 
> We would convert the BITMAP format to image/png

But BITMAP is not PNG, AFAIU.  Moreover, with some images, when I copy
them in a Web browser, I see "PNG" in the targets vector reported by
gui-get-selection.  So I think we need to understand what exactly we
get with each format before we decide on the mapping.

As another data point. text/html seems to be Firefox-specific thing;
the standard Windows name for this is "HTML Format" (with the embedded
space).

> and FILE_NAMES to
> x-special/gnome-copied-files, to be compatible with what org-mode does 
> now. The offer to yank-media would then be text/html, image/png, and 
> x-special/gnome-copied-files, ignoring the rest of formats.

I don't like the Gnome-specific name x-special/gnome-copied-files.
I'd rather we produced a more generic name, and then ask the Org
developers to add support for it.

What about other kinds of media, like audio and video data?  Is that
supported, and if so, can we include that in some way?

bug#71909: 30.0.60;

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Visuwesh <visuweshm@gmail.com>
> Cc: Cecilio Pardo <cpardo@imayhem.com>,  71909@debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Sun, 06 Oct 2024 16:12:03 +0530
> 
> What happens when you copy text from, say, MS Office with formatting
> applied to it (bold, italic, whatever)?  The same with MS Office Excel.
> I was thinking of eventually™ writing handlers for LibreOffice when
> copying over table cells for org-mode.

That requires Emacs to know about Rich Text, and to be able to convert
that to Emacs faces.

> When copying rich text from LibreOffice's MS Word equivalent,
> yank-media-types reports:
> 
>     Possible completions are:
>     primary:text/html
>     clipboard:application/x-openoffice-link;windows_formatname="Link"
>     clipboard:application/x-openoffice-embed-source-xml;windows_formatname="Star Embed Source (XML)"
>     clipboard:TIMESTAMP
>     primary:STRING
>     primary:TEXT
>     primary:TIMESTAMP
>     primary:UTF8_STRING
>     primary:application/x-openoffice-embed-source-xml;windows_formatname="Star Embed Source (XML)"
>     primary:application/x-openoffice-objectdescriptor-xml;windows_formatname="Star Object Descriptor (XML)";classname="8BC6B165-B1B2-4EDD-aa47-dae2ee689dd6";typename="LibreOffice 24.2 Text Document";displayname="file:///home/viz/tmp/User_Manual.docx";viewaspect="1";width="17000";height="3000";posx="0";posy="0"
>     primary:text/plain
>     primary:text/plain;charset=utf-16
>     primary:text/plain;charset=utf-8
>     primary:text/richtext
>     primary:text/rtf

It is similar with Word on Windows, but the names of the formats are
different.

Also, if "primary:" means this is available in the PRIMARY selection,
then we are only talking about CLIPBOARD.  Try

  M-: (gui-get-selection 'CLIPBOARD 'TARGETS) RET

instead.

> where text/html is the most useful.

no, the most useful is Rich Text, but Emacs cannot yet yank that.

> When I copy a few table cells from LibreOffice's MS Excel equivalent, it
> reports:
> 
>     Possible completions are:
>     clipboard:application/x-openoffice-link;windows_formatname="Link"
>     clipboard:application/x-openoffice-embed-source-xml;windows_formatname="Star Embed Source (XML)"
>     clipboard:STRING
>     clipboard:TEXT
>     clipboard:TIMESTAMP
>     clipboard:UTF8_STRING
>     clipboard:application/x-libreoffice-tsvc
>     clipboard:application/x-openoffice-bitmap;windows_formatname="Bitmap"
>     clipboard:application/x-openoffice-dif;windows_formatname="DIF"
>     clipboard:application/x-openoffice-emf;windows_formatname="Image EMF"
>     clipboard:application/x-openoffice-gdimetafile;windows_formatname="GDIMetaFile"
>     clipboard:application/x-openoffice-objectdescriptor-xml;windows_formatname="Star Object Descriptor (XML)";classname="47BBB4CB-CE4C-4E80-a591-42d9ae74950f";typename="LibreOffice 24.2 Spreadsheet";displayname="file:///home/viz/doc/uni/pincer/convergence_for_Mn-1.ods";viewaspect="1";width="15846";height="4065";posx="0";posy="0"
>     clipboard:application/x-openoffice-sylk;windows_formatname="Sylk"
>     clipboard:application/x-openoffice-wmf;windows_formatname="Image WMF"
>     clipboard:image/bmp
>     clipboard:image/png
>     clipboard:text/html
>     clipboard:text/plain
>     clipboard:text/plain;charset=utf-16
>     clipboard:text/plain;charset=utf-8
>     clipboard:text/richtext
>     clipboard:text/rtf
>     primary:CLASS
>     primary:COMPOUND_TEXT
>     primary:HOST_NAME
>     primary:LENGTH
>     primary:NAME
>     primary:OWNER_OS
>     primary:STRING
>     primary:TEXT
>     primary:TIMESTAMP
>     primary:USER
>     primary:UTF8_STRING
>     primary:text/plain
>     primary:text/plain;charset=utf-8
> 
> image/png is, well, an image of the copied cells, and text/html has a
> (an?) HTML table.

On Windows, I see CSV, which I think is more useful (maybe tsvc above
is something similar).  You definitely do NOT want an image in this
case.

bug#71909: 30.0.60;

[Visuwesh]

[ஞாயிறு அக்டோபர் 06, 2024] Eli Zaretskii wrote:

>> From: Visuwesh <visuweshm@gmail.com>
>> Cc: Cecilio Pardo <cpardo@imayhem.com>,  71909@debbugs.gnu.org
>> Date: Sun, 06 Oct 2024 16:12:03 +0530
>> 
>> What happens when you copy text from, say, MS Office with formatting
>> applied to it (bold, italic, whatever)?  The same with MS Office Excel.
>> I was thinking of eventually™ writing handlers for LibreOffice when
>> copying over table cells for org-mode.
>
> That requires Emacs to know about Rich Text, and to be able to convert
> that to Emacs faces.

Which I hope someone will eventually do something about.  When
yank-media was first mentioned among org-mode users, one of the first
question was "Can it paste text copied from the browser in org-mode
format?" (i.e., convert bold text to *bold text*)

>> When copying rich text from LibreOffice's MS Word equivalent,
>> yank-media-types reports:
>> 
>>     Possible completions are:
>>     primary:text/html
>>     clipboard:application/x-openoffice-link;windows_formatname="Link"
>>     clipboard:application/x-openoffice-embed-source-xml;windows_formatname="Star Embed Source (XML)"
>>     clipboard:TIMESTAMP
>>[...]
> It is similar with Word on Windows, but the names of the formats are
> different.
>
> Also, if "primary:" means this is available in the PRIMARY selection,
> then we are only talking about CLIPBOARD.  

Yes, it means the PRIMARY selection.  For some reason, yank-media also
seems to consider the PRIMARY selection?  When I did M-x yank-media RET
in a html-mode buffer, it pasted the above text/html data.

> Try
>
>   M-: (gui-get-selection 'CLIPBOARD 'TARGETS) RET
>
> instead.
>
>> where text/html is the most useful.
>
> no, the most useful is Rich Text, but Emacs cannot yet yank that.

Possibly.  But we could at least "hijack" shr to convert text/html to
string with text properties on it, or make it insert markup elements.
I've done the later as a personal hack and it works fairly well.

>> When I copy a few table cells from LibreOffice's MS Excel equivalent, it
>> reports:
>> 
>>     Possible completions are:
>> [...]
>> image/png is, well, an image of the copied cells, and text/html has a
>> (an?) HTML table.
>
> On Windows, I see CSV, which I think is more useful (maybe tsvc above
> is something similar).  

You are right.  It pasted a TSV formatted text.  I missed it in the long
list of items.

> You definitely do NOT want an image in this case.

Definitely not.  I simply found it amusing that LibreOffice offered it
as a potential candidate.

bug#71909: 30.0.60;

[Cecilio Pardo]

On 06/10/2024 7:59, Eli Zaretskii wrote:

> But BITMAP is not PNG, AFAIU.  Moreover, with some images, when I copy
> them in a Web browser, I see "PNG" in the targets vector reported by
> gui-get-selection.  So I think we need to understand what exactly we
> get with each format before we decide on the mapping.

The standard bitmap formats for the clipboard (CF_BITMAP, CF_DIB, 
CF_DIBV5) are image data specific to windows, not an image format for 
saving to file.  We need to convert it to an image format, with a 
mime/type.  PNG or any other, even multiple ones.

GIMP on ubuntu for example does this when you copy a section of image:

[TIMESTAMP TARGETS MULTIPLE SAVE_TARGETS image/png image/bmp image/x-bmp 
image/x-MS-bmp image/x-icon image/x-ico image/x-win-bitmap 
image/vnd.microsoft.icon ...]

On windows it does this:

[PNG DIB BITMAP DIBV5]

And the Paint program that comes with Windows 11:

[DataObject Embed\ Source Native OwnerLink Object\ Descriptor METAFILE 
DIB PNG image/png Ole\ Private\ Data ENHMETAFILE BITMAP ...]

I didn't expect the PNG, image/png formats.  I suppose they are the same 
image as the DIB/BITMAP.  It seems programs are already doing the 
conversion.  I don't know the details yet, I'm on it.

So at least for images it seems most times we will have a well-known 
format.  If not (BITMAP,DIV), then we can do the PNG conversion.

> As another data point. text/html seems to be Firefox-specific thing;
> the standard Windows name for this is "HTML Format" (with the embedded
> space).

It may be interesting to handle some of this specific formats, from 
Firefox, or OpenOffice as discussed on another thread.  We will have to 
detect them somehow and decide what to do for each case.

> I don't like the Gnome-specific name x-special/gnome-copied-files.
> I'd rather we produced a more generic name, and then ask the Org
> developers to add support for it.

Of course.

> What about other kinds of media, like audio and video data?  Is that
> supported, and if so, can we include that in some way?

In standard formats there is CF_RIFF and CF_WAVE.  Also programas may 
insert a file format (as they do with PNGS), but I haven't found any 
example yet. In any case, we can do the same as with images.

bug#71909: 30.0.60;

[Eli Zaretskii]

> Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2024 12:24:01 +0200
> Cc: 71909@debbugs.gnu.org
> From: Cecilio Pardo <cpardo@imayhem.com>
> 
> On 06/10/2024 7:59, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> 
> > But BITMAP is not PNG, AFAIU.  Moreover, with some images, when I copy
> > them in a Web browser, I see "PNG" in the targets vector reported by
> > gui-get-selection.  So I think we need to understand what exactly we
> > get with each format before we decide on the mapping.
> 
> The standard bitmap formats for the clipboard (CF_BITMAP, CF_DIB, 
> CF_DIBV5) are image data specific to windows, not an image format for 
> saving to file.  We need to convert it to an image format, with a 
> mime/type.  PNG or any other, even multiple ones.

Isn't CF_BITMAP format indicate the data to which we convert images on
Windows in the w32-specific portions of image.c?  Or maybe it's a BMP
data (which we can already display, see w32image.c)?  If so, then
yanking images into an Emacs buffer could simply use the data instead
of converting to PNG, then back to bitmap.

> GIMP on ubuntu for example does this when you copy a section of image:
> 
> [TIMESTAMP TARGETS MULTIPLE SAVE_TARGETS image/png image/bmp image/x-bmp 
> image/x-MS-bmp image/x-icon image/x-ico image/x-win-bitmap 
> image/vnd.microsoft.icon ...]
> 
> On windows it does this:
> 
> [PNG DIB BITMAP DIBV5]
> 
> And the Paint program that comes with Windows 11:
> 
> [DataObject Embed\ Source Native OwnerLink Object\ Descriptor METAFILE 
> DIB PNG image/png Ole\ Private\ Data ENHMETAFILE BITMAP ...]
> 
> I didn't expect the PNG, image/png formats.  I suppose they are the same 
> image as the DIB/BITMAP.

I'd rather expect them to be in PNG format.

> > What about other kinds of media, like audio and video data?  Is that
> > supported, and if so, can we include that in some way?
> 
> In standard formats there is CF_RIFF and CF_WAVE.  Also programas may 
> insert a file format (as they do with PNGS), but I haven't found any 
> example yet. In any case, we can do the same as with images.

If CF_WAVE are the same data as in *.wav files, then we should be able
to invoke play-sound in some way.

bug#71909: 30.0.60;

[Cecilio Pardo]

On 07/10/2024 13:58, Eli Zaretskii wrote:

> Isn't CF_BITMAP format indicate the data to which we convert images on
> Windows in the w32-specific portions of image.c?  Or maybe it's a BMP
> data (which we can already display, see w32image.c)?  If so, then
> yanking images into an Emacs buffer could simply use the data instead
> of converting to PNG, then back to bitmap.

But how would lisp programs register for receiving that?
yank-media-handler asks for mime types.

>> I didn't expect the PNG, image/png formats.  I suppose they are the same
>> image as the DIB/BITMAP.
> 
> I'd rather expect them to be in PNG format.

Yes, the same pixels, but in PNG format.

>>> What about other kinds of media, like audio and video data?  Is that
>>> supported, and if so, can we include that in some way?
>>
>> In standard formats there is CF_RIFF and CF_WAVE.  Also programas may
>> insert a file format (as they do with PNGS), but I haven't found any
>> example yet. In any case, we can do the same as with images.
> 
> If CF_WAVE are the same data as in *.wav files, then we should be able
> to invoke play-sound in some way.

But again, lisp programas need to register for a mime type, and then act 
on the data as they require.

bug#71909: 30.0.60;

[Eli Zaretskii]

> Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2024 14:52:57 +0200
> Cc: 71909@debbugs.gnu.org
> From: Cecilio Pardo <cpardo@imayhem.com>
> 
> On 07/10/2024 13:58, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> 
> > Isn't CF_BITMAP format indicate the data to which we convert images on
> > Windows in the w32-specific portions of image.c?  Or maybe it's a BMP
> > data (which we can already display, see w32image.c)?  If so, then
> > yanking images into an Emacs buffer could simply use the data instead
> > of converting to PNG, then back to bitmap.
> 
> But how would lisp programs register for receiving that?
> yank-media-handler asks for mime types.

I believe the MIME type is image/bmp.

> > If CF_WAVE are the same data as in *.wav files, then we should be able
> > to invoke play-sound in some way.
> 
> But again, lisp programas need to register for a mime type, and then act 
> on the data as they require.

That's audio/wav, I believe.

bug#71909: 30.0.60;

[Cecilio Pardo]

On 05/10/2024 14:33, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
>> Date: Sat, 5 Oct 2024 14:28:35 +0200
>> From: Cecilio Pardo <cpardo@imayhem.com>
>>
>>
>> I'll be working on this, if no one else is.
> 
> Thanks in advance.
> 
> Btw, if you are looking for significant enhancements to Emacs on
> Windows, then support for color fonts (which needs to use Direct2D,
> AFAIU) will be greatly appreciated.

Is there an open bug about this, or should I open a new one?

bug#71909: 30.0.60;

[Eli Zaretskii]

> Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2024 12:04:31 +0200
> Cc: 71909@debbugs.gnu.org
> From: Cecilio Pardo <cpardo@imayhem.com>
> 
> On 05/10/2024 14:33, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> >> Date: Sat, 5 Oct 2024 14:28:35 +0200
> >> From: Cecilio Pardo <cpardo@imayhem.com>
> >>
> > Btw, if you are looking for significant enhancements to Emacs on
> > Windows, then support for color fonts (which needs to use Direct2D,
> > AFAIU) will be greatly appreciated.
> 
> Is there an open bug about this, or should I open a new one?

I don't think we have a bug open for this.