From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#74488: Why not modernize Emacs Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2024 08:59:09 +0200 Message-ID: <86ttbymo5e.fsf@gnu.org> References: <9039ab2e-e781-4d80-8aa0-f39e690f076a@me.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="4260"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: 74488@debbugs.gnu.org To: Raj Divecha Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Nov 23 08:02:27 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1tEk9z-0000sD-8h for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 23 Nov 2024 08:02:27 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1tEk9e-0003cl-1b; Sat, 23 Nov 2024 02:02:06 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1tEk9b-0003cM-G6 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 23 Nov 2024 02:02:03 -0500 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:5::43]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1tEk9b-0004Js-4Z for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 23 Nov 2024 02:02:03 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=debbugs.gnu.org; s=debbugs-gnu-org; h=MIME-Version:References:In-Reply-To:From:Date:To:Subject; bh=4ahY0DSj6paxVEvEva4fVayoN49GpmMLI/pW6VVnNZk=; b=l1oA5dyKaTwLvg26+bCm8ZdcwN0VEfkZJ3kiJeqH/d0nSuFli7+6CTJD8kDGGrZhEHilOk8jkXSyJQz+9umr5gj1Hm6e6EJsqymG7D2yP1YYOXUc7qJP8UjDoUFvz5hwH4mA7HhdrDABEqzLMbbsU2tpqRLPxvsLkW4XHEZEr/mctscPLwBbNi7DIrsFFdi3Ds8FAFnQVePSHVfLAm5S1lf9v0XZiItJ6pelKkERRjKPe/MAgXVh0xNXg51ovj+vBEbqXQf0UBntGYZ6TZRpDFpmUGVb31roVcSPC1zGbgN/ozr5OzOeYPPNef64J912mG6MwSr8gqjBKgVRmqkFhA==; Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1tEk9a-0005d1-Fz for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 23 Nov 2024 02:02:02 -0500 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2024 07:02:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 74488 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: notabug Original-Received: via spool by 74488-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B74488.173234528921575 (code B ref 74488); Sat, 23 Nov 2024 07:02:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 74488) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Nov 2024 07:01:29 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56536 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1tEk93-0005bu-Af for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 23 Nov 2024 02:01:29 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:52274) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1tEk91-0005bV-QN; Sat, 23 Nov 2024 02:01:28 -0500 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1tEk6q-00040G-ED; Sat, 23 Nov 2024 01:59:12 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-Version:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: Date; bh=4ahY0DSj6paxVEvEva4fVayoN49GpmMLI/pW6VVnNZk=; b=J6pKUwZoSsoMSSGqfwfG D7U9aGVP+wf0w+AYmrVTnh5VV5VUyjzOctnOkDBNAm1UGUE1BbR0QOOvIEELm4FXH5Lc13fpKzbus 9hufWJFyBA3QaniNNNzx6uJ7C+Qgl3yq5pnQJAL4aMS/MIA6pVv5pEDOCcPxtIfwmlC+0v3A+fAHB GwnvBNwWsc0vp1nwamsskjMUsroamepvtip36jz67OSqCg2Nq6L2R2oEDq0F/9aOGiTDVF1n2FeQJ D+Zgx155vtsp6AcWbUykQQSyBJgUgaEdNvHv6WOIP3KUa4i3Fs3ldPxWe/VU4M8iTsExods1C/9iJ a9D9RhUxMa0vGQ==; In-Reply-To: <9039ab2e-e781-4d80-8aa0-f39e690f076a@me.com> (bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:295809 Archived-At: severity 74488 wishlist thanks > Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2024 23:27:09 +0000 (UTC) > From: Raj Divecha via "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, > the Swiss army knife of text editors" >=20 > Hi, I am an occasional Emacs user. I know that Emacs is a very capable ed= itor. In fact, most modern editors provide similar features, just that the = learning curve for them is close to nothing. They simply work out of the bo= x. Thus, I am wondering, why not Emacs? How difficult would it be to provid= e a different interface, a simpler one yet fully capable? For example, whil= e I can use Emacs for simple text editing, I still can't use it as my devel= oper IDE. I want some feature that will help me easily install a project ex= plorer like extension. The project explorer could help create workspaces, p= roject, help me navigate them with ease etc. Think MS's VS Code. On the sam= e lines, I would like a LaTeX window with its own extensions. Emacs already= supports all this but the learning curve is so steep that I don't feel lik= e opening it anymore! Thus wondering why can't Emacs come out with a simple= r interface (and allow one to switch to an advance interface when needed) a= nd throw the learning curve out the window? -OR- Am I missing something? Th= anks, Raj The simple answer to your questions is "because no one has yet proposed code changes to implement those features." Emacs is developed by a loosely-coupled group of volunteers, each one of whom contributes changes in the areas that are of interest to him/her and match their domains of expertise. We acknowledge the need and the advantages of having the advanced IDE-related features work out of the box, but have no way of assigning someone to the job of actually doing that non-trivial job. It is non-trivial because different users of Emacs have different interests and needs (e.g., develop in vastly different programming languages), and setting up the tools we have to fit the needs of a particular user is a complex task. In addition, unlike VS Code, we don't want to promote non-free servers and services, so it is much more difficult for us to provide OOTB configuration for features that rely on external programs and servers. But if and when someone comes with code that does one of these jobs, we embrace that very quickly. Examples include Tree-Sitter based major modes, LSP support via Eglot, etc. Thus, volunteers are welcome to contribute additional features that will make Emacs a better IDE, and ease the learning curve for newcomers. Thank you for your interest in Emacs.