From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#68732: 29.1; shell-command-default-error-buffer is not interactive Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2024 16:41:32 +0200 Message-ID: <86o7d89mxv.fsf@gnu.org> References: <349cb29f-38f3-434d-87f2-f6c8e03a63a0@email.android.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="34175"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: 68732@debbugs.gnu.org To: Krzysztof =?UTF-8?Q?=C5=BBelechowski?= Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Jan 26 15:42:52 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1rTNPv-0008iW-R9 for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 26 Jan 2024 15:42:51 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rTNP3-0002Lr-IW; Fri, 26 Jan 2024 09:41:57 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rTNP1-0002LP-QC for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 26 Jan 2024 09:41:55 -0500 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:5::43]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rTNP1-0001PF-I3 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 26 Jan 2024 09:41:55 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rTNP7-00052j-Oe for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 26 Jan 2024 09:42:01 -0500 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2024 14:42:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 68732 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: notabug Original-Received: via spool by 68732-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B68732.170628011219368 (code B ref 68732); Fri, 26 Jan 2024 14:42:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at 68732) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Jan 2024 14:41:52 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50767 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rTNOx-00052K-Ml for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 26 Jan 2024 09:41:52 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:52046) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rTNOv-000526-Mr for 68732@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 26 Jan 2024 09:41:50 -0500 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rTNOi-0001LG-43; Fri, 26 Jan 2024 09:41:36 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-version:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: Date; bh=y2iO/Qx8pDIefAUKe/RM9SQY/GZ0mxLFFyElmhdnfHQ=; b=ePID3VOVz8mAu8LCbkPG LK6m+OqavJQb7JGaaZ4eZT6GS+YjUMtgszXM+PIqImcTMJjufNnrDj5f60ak7TdVySYHfj8mdc74B 5P97843d60l6I/79M5InJLIBs7i4su3C9fYSSo9BiNcoopVPQjKiRRSNnJBcvpsCJABGvOtHB2uan ey8YekbYsoapjSe+qYr6jr1rxujuQkobRIqWTD4QtiPvD2/VniM+q2prAqU5hScndxXKuxr+rlYtR vEvw6RCzY9mGwBH8vdDHCcPwyy9Atv7qG+IRg+uE0FAM0m+ZX06MaG/Frqzd4nx1W0Ggtt+YdiTFM utB22edp6quc3w==; In-Reply-To: <349cb29f-38f3-434d-87f2-f6c8e03a63a0@email.android.com> (message from Krzysztof =?UTF-8?Q?=C5=BBelechowski?= on Fri, 26 Jan 2024 15:23:13 +0100) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:278931 Archived-At: > Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2024 15:23:13 +0100 > From: Krzysztof Żelechowski > Cc: 68732@debbugs.gnu.org > > Suppose I am not a software developer but a system administrator. I prefer not to use the scratch > buffer or M-:. Then you should consider asking the software developer to write a command for you which modifies the variable and then invokes shell-command. > If the variable shell-command-default-error-buffer is not interactive by design, how am I supposed to > get a clean output from M-! grub-mkconfig RET, for example? By writing a new command which does that and is otherwise a thin wrapper around shell-command, for example. > The design looks inconsistent in that the variable affects only interactive behaviour while being > non-interactive itself. What is the use case for it? Who is supposed to modify its value? Variables that are not user options are supposed to be modified by Lisp programs. (But I also fail to see a problem with using setq by users. It isn't like that is forbidden or "not kosher" in some way. We even show examples of that in the user manual. So why is this such a big problem?)