* bug#74261: 30.0.92; Remove modeline warning for explicit uses of dynamic binding
@ 2024-11-08 15:33 Christopher Howard
2024-11-08 18:05 ` Drew Adams via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
0 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread
From: Christopher Howard @ 2024-11-08 15:33 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: 74261; +Cc: Eli Zaretskii
After discussion on the emacs-devel mailing list, Eli requested I put this in as an official feature request on the bug tracker. Current Emacs behavior is that the mode line will display a warning on the mode line for Elisp buffers that are using dynamic binding, which in my theme appears as a red color "/d" through a special face. This is regardless of whether or not dynamic binding has been explicitly chosen in the elisp file. The request would be to disable this warning if dynamic binding was explicitly chosen for the file. I am not certain what exactly is the best way to detect that, but in the elisp manual the recommended method of explicitly chosing dialect is through a file-local declaration of the `lexical-binding' variable.
In GNU Emacs 30.0.92 (build 2, x86_64-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version
3.24.41, cairo version 1.18.0) of 2024-10-29 built on theoden
Repository revision: 8a4d13e370cb816438816a4af77f70f4d0de9618
Repository branch: emacs-30
Windowing system distributor 'The X.Org Foundation', version 11.0.12101012
System Description: Guix System
Configured using:
'configure --prefix=/home/christopher/local/emacs 'CFLAGS=-O0 -g3'
PKG_CONFIG_PATH=/gnu/store/f335yc4x4ps0qalm4hafy0dggsfczfkj-profile/lib/pkgconfig:/gnu/store/f335yc4x4ps0qalm4hafy0dggsfczfkj-profile/share/pkgconfig:/home/christopher/.guix-home/profile/lib/pkgconfig:/home/christopher/.guix-home/profile/share/pkgconfig:/home/christopher/.guix-profile/lib/pkgconfig:/home/christopher/.guix-profile/share/pkgconfig'
Configured features:
ACL CAIRO DBUS FREETYPE GIF GLIB GMP GNUTLS GPM GSETTINGS HARFBUZZ JPEG
LCMS2 LIBSELINUX LIBXML2 MODULES NOTIFY INOTIFY PDUMPER PNG RSVG SECCOMP
SOUND SQLITE3 THREADS TIFF TOOLKIT_SCROLL_BARS X11 XDBE XIM XINPUT2 XPM
GTK3 ZLIB
Important settings:
value of $EMACSLOADPATH: /home/christopher/local/emacs/share/emacs/30.0.92/lisp:/home/christopher/.guix-home/profile/share/emacs/site-lisp
value of $EMACSNATIVELOADPATH: /home/christopher/.guix-home/profile/lib/emacs/native-site-lisp:/home/christopher/.guix-profile/lib/emacs/native-site-lisp
value of $LANG: en_US.utf8
locale-coding-system: utf-8-unix
Major mode: REPL
Minor modes in effect:
global-git-commit-mode: t
magit-auto-revert-mode: t
geiser-autodoc-mode: t
geiser-smart-tab-mode: t
pdf-occur-global-minor-mode: t
rcirc-track-minor-mode: t
roam-track-minor-mode: t
org-roam-db-autosync-mode: t
server-mode: t
helm-mode: t
helm-minibuffer-history-mode: t
async-bytecomp-package-mode: t
straight-use-package-mode: t
straight-package-neutering-mode: t
minibuffer-depth-indicate-mode: t
global-display-line-numbers-mode: t
display-line-numbers-mode: t
cl-old-struct-compat-mode: 1
tooltip-mode: t
global-eldoc-mode: t
eldoc-mode: t
show-paren-mode: t
electric-indent-mode: t
mouse-wheel-mode: t
file-name-shadow-mode: t
global-font-lock-mode: t
font-lock-mode: t
minibuffer-regexp-mode: t
column-number-mode: t
line-number-mode: t
transient-mark-mode: t
auto-composition-mode: t
auto-encryption-mode: t
auto-compression-mode: t
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Features:
(shadow emacsbug url-cache eww mm-url flow-fill magit-extras
magit-bookmark magit-submodule magit-blame magit-stash magit-reflog
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magit magit-repos magit-apply magit-wip magit-log which-func magit-diff
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magit-autorevert autorevert magit-margin magit-transient magit-process
with-editor magit-mode benchmark magit-git magit-base tabify cus-start
mailalias smtpmail vc-git diff-mode track-changes vc-dispatcher
bbdb-message face-remap misearch multi-isearch sort gnus-cite smiley
mm-archive mail-extr textsec uni-scripts idna-mapping ucs-normalize
uni-confusable textsec-check gnus-bcklg guix-ui-package guix-license
guix-ui-store-item guix-auto-mode guix-package guix-location ffap
em-xtra em-unix em-tramp em-term term ehelp em-smart em-script em-prompt
em-pred em-ls em-hist em-glob em-extpipe em-elecslash em-cmpl em-dirs
em-basic em-banner em-alias esh-mode esh-var eshell esh-cmd mule-util
gnus-async qp gnus-ml disp-table nndraft nnmh nnfolder utf-7 bbdb-gnus
bbdb-mua bbdb-com crm network-stream gnus-agent gnus-srvr gnus-score
score-mode nnvirtual gnus-msg gnus-art mm-uu mml2015 mm-view mml-smime
smime dig nntp gnus-cache guix-command guix-build-log guix-misc guix-ui
guix-ui-messages bui bui-list bui-info bui-entry bui-core bui-history
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gnus-win gnus nnheader range bookmark+-bmu bookmark+-lit bookmark+-mac
uniline pcase rect hydra lv pdf-occur ibuf-ext ibuffer ibuffer-loaddefs
tablist tablist-filter semantic/wisent/comp semantic/wisent
semantic/wisent/wisent semantic/util-modes semantic/util semantic
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emacsql-sqlite-builtin sqlite org-roam-utils org-roam-compat org-roam
org-capture org-element org-persist org-attach org-id org-refile
org-element-ast inline org ob ob-tangle ob-ref ob-lob ob-table ob-exp
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calendar cal-loaddefs org-compat org-macs emacsql-sqlite
emacsql-sqlite-common emacsql emacsql-compiler magit-section
cursor-sensor compat dash printing ps-print ps-print-loaddefs lpr
esh-ext esh-proc esh-opt esh-io esh-arg esh-module esh-module-loaddefs
esh-util elfeed-show elfeed-search wid-edit bookmark pp message sendmail
yank-media rfc822 mml mml-sec epa derived epg rfc6068 epg-config
gnus-util mm-decode mm-bodies mm-encode mail-parse rfc2231 rfc2047
rfc2045 mm-util ietf-drums mail-prsvr mailabbrev mail-utils gmm-utils
mailheader shr text-property-search pixel-fill kinsoku puny svg dom
elfeed-csv elfeed elfeed-curl elfeed-log elfeed-db elfeed-lib avl-tree
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server helm-mode helm-misc helm-files image-dired image-dired-tags
image-dired-external image-dired-util image-mode dired dired-loaddefs
exif filenotify helm-buffers all-the-icons all-the-icons-faces
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helm-regexp helm-utils helm-help helm-types helm helm-global-bindings
helm-easymenu edmacro kmacro helm-core easy-mmode async-bytecomp
helm-source helm-multi-match helm-lib async straight-autoloads cl-extra
straight green-phosphor-theme mb-depth display-line-numbers crux tramp
rx trampver tramp-integration files-x tramp-message help-mode
tramp-compat xdg shell pcomplete comint ansi-osc ring parse-time iso8601
time-date format-spec ansi-color tramp-loaddefs thingatpt cus-load
mu4e-autoloads yeetube-autoloads xmlgen-autoloads xterm-color-autoloads
wttrin-autoloads oauth2-autoloads apel-lb-autoloads flim-lb-autoloads
semi-epg-autoloads unfill-autoloads tmr-autoloads
rainbow-identifiers-autoloads company-autoloads
visual-fill-column-autoloads telega-autoloads straight-el-autoloads
srfi-autoloads helm-slime-autoloads macrostep-autoloads slime-autoloads
restart-emacs-autoloads puni-autoloads poke-mode-autoloads
placeholder-autoloads pdfgrep-autoloads tablist-autoloads
pdf-tools-autoloads password-generator-autoloads paredit-autoloads
sqlite3-api-autoloads pg-autoloads finalize-autoloads emacsql-autoloads
org-roam-autoloads peg-autoloads ov-autoloads ht-autoloads
org-super-agenda-autoloads org-ql-autoloads org-present-autoloads
org-noter-autoloads org-modern-autoloads hydra-autoloads
org-fc-autoloads ox-gemini-autoloads osm-autoloads
org-contacts-autoloads orderless-autoloads nssh-autoloads kv-autoloads
nov-el-autoloads names-autoloads advice memory-usage-autoloads
math-preview-autoloads persist-autoloads ts-autoloads deferred-autoloads
request-autoloads mastodon-autoloads markdown-mode-autoloads
transient-autoloads magit-autoloads m-buffer-el-autoloads
helm-org-contacts-autoloads gemini-autoloads srv-autoloads
hexrgb-autoloads fsm-autoloads jabber-autoloads inspector-autoloads
htmlize-autoloads shut-up-autoloads loop-autoloads list-utils-autoloads
elisp-refs-autoloads helpful-autoloads helm-wordnut-autoloads
password-store-autoloads helm-pass-autoloads popup-autoloads
async-autoloads helm-autoloads f3-autoloads expand-region-autoloads
everywhere-autoloads eshell-z-autoloads engine-mode-autoloads
elpher-autoloads elfeed-autoloads eldev-autoloads seq-autoloads
xref-autoloads project-autoloads jsonrpc-autoloads
external-completion-autoloads eldoc-autoloads eglot-autoloads
ed-mode-autoloads compat-autoloads eat-autoloads debase-autoloads
discomfort-autoloads soap-client-autoloads debbugs-autoloads
daemons-autoloads crux-autoloads casual-info-autoloads
casual-dired-autoloads casual-lib-autoloads casual-calc-autoloads
browse-kill-ring-autoloads eimp-autoloads blimp-autoloads bbdb-autoloads
memoize-autoloads s-autoloads f-autoloads all-the-icons-autoloads
0x0-autoloads magit-popup-autoloads geiser-guile-autoloads
geiser-autoloads edit-indirect-autoloads dash-autoloads bui-autoloads
guix-emacs annotate-autoloads package browse-url url url-proxy
url-privacy url-expand url-methods url-history url-cookie
generate-lisp-file url-domsuf url-util mailcap url-handlers url-parse
auth-source cl-seq eieio eieio-core cl-macs icons password-cache json
subr-x map byte-opt gv bytecomp byte-compile url-vars cl-loaddefs cl-lib
rmc iso-transl tooltip cconv eldoc paren electric uniquify ediff-hook
vc-hooks lisp-float-type elisp-mode mwheel term/x-win x-win
term/common-win x-dnd touch-screen tool-bar dnd fontset image regexp-opt
fringe tabulated-list replace newcomment text-mode lisp-mode prog-mode
register page tab-bar menu-bar rfn-eshadow isearch easymenu timer select
scroll-bar mouse jit-lock font-lock syntax font-core term/tty-colors
frame minibuffer nadvice seq simple cl-generic indonesian philippine
cham georgian utf-8-lang misc-lang vietnamese tibetan thai tai-viet lao
korean japanese eucjp-ms cp51932 hebrew greek romanian slovak czech
european ethiopic indian cyrillic chinese composite emoji-zwj charscript
charprop case-table epa-hook jka-cmpr-hook help abbrev obarray oclosure
cl-preloaded button loaddefs theme-loaddefs faces cus-face macroexp
files window text-properties overlay sha1 md5 base64 format env
code-pages mule custom widget keymap hashtable-print-readable backquote
threads dbusbind inotify lcms2 dynamic-setting system-font-setting
font-render-setting cairo gtk x-toolkit xinput2 x multi-tty move-toolbar
make-network-process emacs)
Memory information:
((conses 16 947600 147992) (symbols 48 53501 12)
(strings 32 246173 10848) (string-bytes 1 6499876)
(vectors 16 120246) (vector-slots 8 1973026 250325)
(floats 8 1102 1970) (intervals 56 14990 2922) (buffers 984 86))
--
📛 Christopher Howard
🚀 gemini://gem.librehacker.com
🌐 http://gem.librehacker.com
בראשית ברא אלהים את השמים ואת הארץ
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* bug#74261: 30.0.92; Remove modeline warning for explicit uses of dynamic binding
2024-11-08 15:33 bug#74261: 30.0.92; Remove modeline warning for explicit uses of dynamic binding Christopher Howard
@ 2024-11-08 18:05 ` Drew Adams via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2024-11-11 5:13 ` Richard Stallman
0 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread
From: Drew Adams via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors @ 2024-11-08 18:05 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Christopher Howard, 74261@debbugs.gnu.org; +Cc: Eli Zaretskii
+1.
____
The indication in the mode line should be
(1) optional and (2) unobtrusive.
#2: it should just matter-of-factly tell you
what mode the current buffer is in.
This consideration is appropriate regardless
of whether the default in Emacs is (like now)
dynamic binding or (in the future) lexical
binding.
Just let users know what mode the buffer is
in. And make it easy for users to not show
any such indication, if they like. Provide
a new mode-line variable for the indication:
https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/elisp/Mode-Line-Variables.html
(Such a variable should have been introduced
when the indication was first added...)
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* bug#74261: 30.0.92; Remove modeline warning for explicit uses of dynamic binding
2024-11-08 18:05 ` Drew Adams via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
@ 2024-11-11 5:13 ` Richard Stallman
2024-11-11 12:26 ` Eli Zaretskii
0 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread
From: Richard Stallman @ 2024-11-11 5:13 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Drew Adams; +Cc: christopher, eliz, 74261
[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]
> The indication in the mode line should be
> (1) optional and (2) unobtrusive.
> #2: it should just matter-of-factly tell you
> what mode the current buffer is in.
I contend it should be "intrusive" enough to serve as an effective
reminder.
Once dynamic binding becomes unusual, programmers will tend to
assume without conscious doubt that every file uses lexical binding.
So I think that the indicator that this file uses dynamic binding
ought to be somewhat loud, so that users won't overlook it.
--
Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org)
Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org)
Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* bug#74261: 30.0.92; Remove modeline warning for explicit uses of dynamic binding
2024-11-11 5:13 ` Richard Stallman
@ 2024-11-11 12:26 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-11-25 4:32 ` Richard Stallman
0 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread
From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2024-11-11 12:26 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: rms; +Cc: christopher, drew.adams, 74261
> From: Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org>
> Cc: christopher@librehacker.com, 74261@debbugs.gnu.org, eliz@gnu.org
> Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2024 00:13:43 -0500
>
> > The indication in the mode line should be
> > (1) optional and (2) unobtrusive.
>
> > #2: it should just matter-of-factly tell you
> > what mode the current buffer is in.
>
> I contend it should be "intrusive" enough to serve as an effective
> reminder.
>
> Once dynamic binding becomes unusual, programmers will tend to
> assume without conscious doubt that every file uses lexical binding.
>
> So I think that the indicator that this file uses dynamic binding
> ought to be somewhat loud, so that users won't overlook it.
I tend to agree, but only if the file does not already have a
lexical-binding cookie which makes the file use dynamical binding.
Compare this with files that have an unusual encoding or an EOL format
that is not the native one on the current platform: we provide an
indication on the mode line, but don't insist on having it stand out
too much, just a little.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* bug#74261: 30.0.92; Remove modeline warning for explicit uses of dynamic binding
2024-11-11 12:26 ` Eli Zaretskii
@ 2024-11-25 4:32 ` Richard Stallman
2024-11-25 12:20 ` Eli Zaretskii
0 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread
From: Richard Stallman @ 2024-11-25 4:32 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: christopher, drew.adams, 74261
[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]
I am sorry it took me so late to see and answer this.
> > So I think that the indicator that this file uses dynamic binding
> > ought to be somewhat loud, so that users won't overlook it.
> I tend to agree, but only if the file does not already have a
> lexical-binding cookie which makes the file use dynamical binding.
Are you assuming that the person looking at the file
is also the file's author? In that situation, I would agree:
you don't need to be warned that your file is set to use
dynamic binding if you set it that way yourself.
But I think it is useful to show this warning when person A looks at
person B's file. Person A is likely to assume the file use lexical
binding, when just about all files do so; therefore, it is useful to
inform A that this file makes the unusual choice.
> Compare this with files that have an unusual encoding or an EOL format
> that is not the native one on the current platform: we provide an
> indication on the mode line, but don't insist on having it stand out
> too much, just a little.
Maybe that too should be bolder just because it is so unusual that no
one would be thinking about it. But I don't feel so strongly about
either of these issues that I would argue about it.
--
Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org)
Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org)
Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* bug#74261: 30.0.92; Remove modeline warning for explicit uses of dynamic binding
2024-11-25 4:32 ` Richard Stallman
@ 2024-11-25 12:20 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-11-28 4:54 ` Richard Stallman
0 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread
From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2024-11-25 12:20 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: rms; +Cc: christopher, drew.adams, 74261
> From: Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org>
> Cc: drew.adams@oracle.com, christopher@librehacker.com,
> 74261@debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2024 23:32:10 -0500
>
> > > So I think that the indicator that this file uses dynamic binding
> > > ought to be somewhat loud, so that users won't overlook it.
>
> > I tend to agree, but only if the file does not already have a
> > lexical-binding cookie which makes the file use dynamical binding.
>
> Are you assuming that the person looking at the file
> is also the file's author? In that situation, I would agree:
> you don't need to be warned that your file is set to use
> dynamic binding if you set it that way yourself.
>
> But I think it is useful to show this warning when person A looks at
> person B's file. Person A is likely to assume the file use lexical
> binding, when just about all files do so; therefore, it is useful to
> inform A that this file makes the unusual choice.
That could be the case, yes.
However, another way of looking at such situation is that if the
author (person B) decided the file should use dynamic scoping, that's
"good enough" for person A. For example, assume that person B is
Emacs maintainers, and the file is part of Emacs.
I guess which POV is taken depends on whether person A is about to
hack on the file, or wants a seep understanding of its workings, or is
just reading the code?
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* bug#74261: 30.0.92; Remove modeline warning for explicit uses of dynamic binding
2024-11-25 12:20 ` Eli Zaretskii
@ 2024-11-28 4:54 ` Richard Stallman
2024-11-28 9:40 ` Eli Zaretskii
0 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread
From: Richard Stallman @ 2024-11-28 4:54 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: christopher, drew.adams, 74261
[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]
> > But I think it is useful to show this warning when person A looks at
> > person B's file. Person A is likely to assume the file use lexical
> > binding, when just about all files do so; therefore, it is useful to
> > inform A that this file makes the unusual choice.
> That could be the case, yes.
> However, another way of looking at such situation is that if the
> author (person B) decided the file should use dynamic scoping, that's
> "good enough" for person A.
I think this sentence may have changed the question unintentionally.
"That's good enough for A" means "A should not object to what B
decided". In that sense, think B's addition of he file variable often
_should_ be good enough for A.
But the question we were discussing is not whether A has a right to
object to B's decision. It is whether A is aware of B's decision for
that file. The warning will help make A aware of it.
For example, assume that person B is
> Emacs maintainers, and the file is part of Emacs.
I think it will be useful to warn A that the file is set up to specify
dynamic binding.
--
Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org)
Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org)
Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread* bug#74261: 30.0.92; Remove modeline warning for explicit uses of dynamic binding
2024-11-28 4:54 ` Richard Stallman
@ 2024-11-28 9:40 ` Eli Zaretskii
0 siblings, 0 replies; 8+ messages in thread
From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2024-11-28 9:40 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: rms; +Cc: christopher, drew.adams, 74261
> From: Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org>
> Cc: christopher@librehacker.com, drew.adams@oracle.com,
> 74261@debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2024 23:54:25 -0500
>
> > > But I think it is useful to show this warning when person A looks at
> > > person B's file. Person A is likely to assume the file use lexical
> > > binding, when just about all files do so; therefore, it is useful to
> > > inform A that this file makes the unusual choice.
>
> > That could be the case, yes.
>
> > However, another way of looking at such situation is that if the
> > author (person B) decided the file should use dynamic scoping, that's
> > "good enough" for person A.
>
> I think this sentence may have changed the question unintentionally.
> "That's good enough for A" means "A should not object to what B
> decided". In that sense, think B's addition of he file variable often
> _should_ be good enough for A.
>
> But the question we were discussing is not whether A has a right to
> object to B's decision. It is whether A is aware of B's decision for
> that file. The warning will help make A aware of it.
What I meant was that "good enough" here means A should not be
bothered or made aware.
> For example, assume that person B is
> > Emacs maintainers, and the file is part of Emacs.
>
> I think it will be useful to warn A that the file is set up to specify
> dynamic binding.
I tried to make the point that whether it is useful depends on the
POV.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2024-11-28 9:40 UTC | newest]
Thread overview: 8+ messages (download: mbox.gz follow: Atom feed
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2024-11-08 15:33 bug#74261: 30.0.92; Remove modeline warning for explicit uses of dynamic binding Christopher Howard
2024-11-08 18:05 ` Drew Adams via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2024-11-11 5:13 ` Richard Stallman
2024-11-11 12:26 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-11-25 4:32 ` Richard Stallman
2024-11-25 12:20 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-11-28 4:54 ` Richard Stallman
2024-11-28 9:40 ` Eli Zaretskii
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