bug#74261: 30.0.92; Remove modeline warning for explicit uses of dynamic binding

bug#74261: 30.0.92; Remove modeline warning for explicit uses of dynamic binding

[Christopher Howard]

After discussion on the emacs-devel mailing list, Eli requested I put this in as an official feature request on the bug tracker. Current Emacs behavior is that the mode line will display a warning on the mode line for Elisp buffers that are using dynamic binding, which in my theme appears as a red color "/d" through a special face. This is regardless of whether or not dynamic binding has been explicitly chosen in the elisp file. The request would be to disable this warning if dynamic binding was explicitly chosen for the file. I am not certain what exactly is the best way to detect that, but in the elisp manual the recommended method of explicitly chosing dialect is through a file-local declaration of the `lexical-binding' variable.


In GNU Emacs 30.0.92 (build 2, x86_64-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version
 3.24.41, cairo version 1.18.0) of 2024-10-29 built on theoden
Repository revision: 8a4d13e370cb816438816a4af77f70f4d0de9618
Repository branch: emacs-30
Windowing system distributor 'The X.Org Foundation', version 11.0.12101012
System Description: Guix System

Configured using:
 'configure --prefix=/home/christopher/local/emacs 'CFLAGS=-O0 -g3'
 PKG_CONFIG_PATH=/gnu/store/f335yc4x4ps0qalm4hafy0dggsfczfkj-profile/lib/pkgconfig:/gnu/store/f335yc4x4ps0qalm4hafy0dggsfczfkj-profile/share/pkgconfig:/home/christopher/.guix-home/profile/lib/pkgconfig:/home/christopher/.guix-home/profile/share/pkgconfig:/home/christopher/.guix-profile/lib/pkgconfig:/home/christopher/.guix-profile/share/pkgconfig'

Configured features:
ACL CAIRO DBUS FREETYPE GIF GLIB GMP GNUTLS GPM GSETTINGS HARFBUZZ JPEG
LCMS2 LIBSELINUX LIBXML2 MODULES NOTIFY INOTIFY PDUMPER PNG RSVG SECCOMP
SOUND SQLITE3 THREADS TIFF TOOLKIT_SCROLL_BARS X11 XDBE XIM XINPUT2 XPM
GTK3 ZLIB

Important settings:
  value of $EMACSLOADPATH: /home/christopher/local/emacs/share/emacs/30.0.92/lisp:/home/christopher/.guix-home/profile/share/emacs/site-lisp
  value of $EMACSNATIVELOADPATH: /home/christopher/.guix-home/profile/lib/emacs/native-site-lisp:/home/christopher/.guix-profile/lib/emacs/native-site-lisp
  value of $LANG: en_US.utf8
  locale-coding-system: utf-8-unix

Major mode: REPL

Minor modes in effect:
  global-git-commit-mode: t
  magit-auto-revert-mode: t
  geiser-autodoc-mode: t
  geiser-smart-tab-mode: t
  pdf-occur-global-minor-mode: t
  rcirc-track-minor-mode: t
  roam-track-minor-mode: t
  org-roam-db-autosync-mode: t
  server-mode: t
  helm-mode: t
  helm-minibuffer-history-mode: t
  async-bytecomp-package-mode: t
  straight-use-package-mode: t
  straight-package-neutering-mode: t
  minibuffer-depth-indicate-mode: t
  global-display-line-numbers-mode: t
  display-line-numbers-mode: t
  cl-old-struct-compat-mode: 1
  tooltip-mode: t
  global-eldoc-mode: t
  eldoc-mode: t
  show-paren-mode: t
  electric-indent-mode: t
  mouse-wheel-mode: t
  file-name-shadow-mode: t
  global-font-lock-mode: t
  font-lock-mode: t
  minibuffer-regexp-mode: t
  column-number-mode: t
  line-number-mode: t
  transient-mark-mode: t
  auto-composition-mode: t
  auto-encryption-mode: t
  auto-compression-mode: t

Load-path shadows:
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Features:
(shadow emacsbug url-cache eww mm-url flow-fill magit-extras
magit-bookmark magit-submodule magit-blame magit-stash magit-reflog
magit-bisect magit-push magit-pull magit-fetch magit-clone magit-remote
magit-commit magit-sequence magit-notes magit-worktree magit-tag
magit-merge magit-branch magit-reset magit-files magit-refs magit-status
magit magit-repos magit-apply magit-wip magit-log which-func magit-diff
smerge-mode diff git-commit log-edit pcvs-util magit-core
magit-autorevert autorevert magit-margin magit-transient magit-process
with-editor magit-mode benchmark magit-git magit-base tabify cus-start
mailalias smtpmail vc-git diff-mode track-changes vc-dispatcher
bbdb-message face-remap misearch multi-isearch sort gnus-cite smiley
mm-archive mail-extr textsec uni-scripts idna-mapping ucs-normalize
uni-confusable textsec-check gnus-bcklg guix-ui-package guix-license
guix-ui-store-item guix-auto-mode guix-package guix-location ffap
em-xtra em-unix em-tramp em-term term ehelp em-smart em-script em-prompt
em-pred em-ls em-hist em-glob em-extpipe em-elecslash em-cmpl em-dirs
em-basic em-banner em-alias esh-mode esh-var eshell esh-cmd mule-util
gnus-async qp gnus-ml disp-table nndraft nnmh nnfolder utf-7 bbdb-gnus
bbdb-mua bbdb-com crm network-stream gnus-agent gnus-srvr gnus-score
score-mode nnvirtual gnus-msg gnus-art mm-uu mml2015 mm-view mml-smime
smime dig nntp gnus-cache guix-command guix-build-log guix-misc guix-ui
guix-ui-messages bui bui-list bui-info bui-entry bui-core bui-history
bui-button guix-read guix-repl guix-external guix-geiser guix-guile
geiser-mode geiser-xref geiser-compile geiser-guile info-look transient
geiser geiser-debug geiser-repl geiser-image geiser-capf geiser-doc
geiser-menu geiser-autodoc geiser-edit etags fileloop xref project
geiser-completion geiser-eval geiser-connection geiser-syntax scheme
geiser-log geiser-popup view geiser-impl help-fns radix-tree
geiser-custom geiser-base guix-help-vars guix-popup guix-profiles
guix-utils guix bui-utils guix-config guix-build-config magit-popup
winner tramp-archive tramp-gvfs helm-command helm-elisp helm-eval
helm-info guix-autoloads info debbugs-gnu add-log debbugs soap-client
url-http url-auth url-gw warnings rng-xsd rng-dt rng-util xsd-regexp
debbugs-compat discomfort debase-objectmanager debase eieio-base mathjax
xterm-color socks gnutls nsm elpher bookmark+ bookmark+-key bookmark+-1
gnus-sum gnus-group gnus-undo gnus-start gnus-dbus dbus gnus-cloud
nnimap nnmail mail-source utf7 nnoo gnus-spec gnus-int gnus-range
gnus-win gnus nnheader range bookmark+-bmu bookmark+-lit bookmark+-mac
uniline pcase rect hydra lv pdf-occur ibuf-ext ibuffer ibuffer-loaddefs
tablist tablist-filter semantic/wisent/comp semantic/wisent
semantic/wisent/wisent semantic/util-modes semantic/util semantic
semantic/tag semantic/lex semantic/fw mode-local cedet pdf-isearch
let-alist pdf-misc imenu pdf-tools compile cus-edit pdf-view jka-compr
pdf-cache pdf-info tq pdf-util pdf-macs rcirc bbdb bbdb-site timezone
text-decoration s names edebug debug backtrace org-roam-protocol
org-protocol org-roam-migrate org-roam-log org-roam-mode
org-roam-capture org-roam-id org-roam-node org-roam-db
emacsql-sqlite-builtin sqlite org-roam-utils org-roam-compat org-roam
org-capture org-element org-persist org-attach org-id org-refile
org-element-ast inline org ob ob-tangle ob-ref ob-lob ob-table ob-exp
org-macro org-src sh-script smie treesit executable ob-comint
org-pcomplete org-list org-footnote org-faces org-entities noutline
outline org-version ob-emacs-lisp ob-core ob-eval org-cycle org-table ol
org-fold org-fold-core org-keys oc org-loaddefs find-func cal-menu
calendar cal-loaddefs org-compat org-macs emacsql-sqlite
emacsql-sqlite-common emacsql emacsql-compiler magit-section
cursor-sensor compat dash printing ps-print ps-print-loaddefs lpr
esh-ext esh-proc esh-opt esh-io esh-arg esh-module esh-module-loaddefs
esh-util elfeed-show elfeed-search wid-edit bookmark pp message sendmail
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frame minibuffer nadvice seq simple cl-generic indonesian philippine
cham georgian utf-8-lang misc-lang vietnamese tibetan thai tai-viet lao
korean japanese eucjp-ms cp51932 hebrew greek romanian slovak czech
european ethiopic indian cyrillic chinese composite emoji-zwj charscript
charprop case-table epa-hook jka-cmpr-hook help abbrev obarray oclosure
cl-preloaded button loaddefs theme-loaddefs faces cus-face macroexp
files window text-properties overlay sha1 md5 base64 format env
code-pages mule custom widget keymap hashtable-print-readable backquote
threads dbusbind inotify lcms2 dynamic-setting system-font-setting
font-render-setting cairo gtk x-toolkit xinput2 x multi-tty move-toolbar
make-network-process emacs)

Memory information:
((conses 16 947600 147992) (symbols 48 53501 12)
 (strings 32 246173 10848) (string-bytes 1 6499876)
 (vectors 16 120246) (vector-slots 8 1973026 250325)
 (floats 8 1102 1970) (intervals 56 14990 2922) (buffers 984 86))

-- 
📛 Christopher Howard
🚀 gemini://gem.librehacker.com
🌐 http://gem.librehacker.com

בראשית ברא אלהים את השמים ואת הארץ

bug#74261: 30.0.92; Remove modeline warning for explicit uses of dynamic binding

[Drew Adams via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors]

+1.
____

The indication in the mode line should be
(1) optional and (2) unobtrusive.

#2: it should just matter-of-factly tell you
what mode the current buffer is in.

This consideration is appropriate regardless
of whether the default in Emacs is (like now)
dynamic binding or (in the future) lexical
binding.

Just let users know what mode the buffer is
in.  And make it easy for users to not show
any such indication, if they like.  Provide
a new mode-line variable for the indication:

https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/elisp/Mode-Line-Variables.html

(Such a variable should have been introduced
when the indication was first added...)

bug#74261: 30.0.92; Remove modeline warning for explicit uses of dynamic binding

[Richard Stallman]

[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]

  > The indication in the mode line should be
  > (1) optional and (2) unobtrusive.

  > #2: it should just matter-of-factly tell you
  > what mode the current buffer is in.

I contend it should be "intrusive" enough to serve as an effective
reminder.

Once dynamic binding becomes unusual, programmers will tend to
assume without conscious doubt that every file uses lexical binding.

So I think that the indicator that this file uses dynamic binding
ought to be somewhat loud, so that users won't overlook it.

-- 
Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org)
Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org)
Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)

bug#74261: 30.0.92; Remove modeline warning for explicit uses of dynamic binding

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org>
> Cc: christopher@librehacker.com, 74261@debbugs.gnu.org, eliz@gnu.org
> Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2024 00:13:43 -0500
> 
>   > The indication in the mode line should be
>   > (1) optional and (2) unobtrusive.
> 
>   > #2: it should just matter-of-factly tell you
>   > what mode the current buffer is in.
> 
> I contend it should be "intrusive" enough to serve as an effective
> reminder.
> 
> Once dynamic binding becomes unusual, programmers will tend to
> assume without conscious doubt that every file uses lexical binding.
> 
> So I think that the indicator that this file uses dynamic binding
> ought to be somewhat loud, so that users won't overlook it.

I tend to agree, but only if the file does not already have a
lexical-binding cookie which makes the file use dynamical binding.

Compare this with files that have an unusual encoding or an EOL format
that is not the native one on the current platform: we provide an
indication on the mode line, but don't insist on having it stand out
too much, just a little.

bug#74261: 30.0.92; Remove modeline warning for explicit uses of dynamic binding

[Richard Stallman]

[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]

I am sorry it took me so late to see and answer this.

  > > So I think that the indicator that this file uses dynamic binding
  > > ought to be somewhat loud, so that users won't overlook it.

  > I tend to agree, but only if the file does not already have a
  > lexical-binding cookie which makes the file use dynamical binding.

Are you assuming that the person looking at the file
is also the file's author?  In that situation, I would agree:
you don't need to be warned that your file is set to use
dynamic binding if you set it that way yourself.

But I think it is useful to show this warning when person A looks at
person B's file.  Person A is likely to assume the file use lexical
binding, when just about all files do so; therefore, it is useful to
inform A that this file makes the unusual choice.

  > Compare this with files that have an unusual encoding or an EOL format
  > that is not the native one on the current platform: we provide an
  > indication on the mode line, but don't insist on having it stand out
  > too much, just a little.

Maybe that too should be bolder just because it is so unusual that no
one would be thinking about it.  But I don't feel so strongly about
either of these issues that I would argue about it.

-- 
Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org)
Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org)
Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)

bug#74261: 30.0.92; Remove modeline warning for explicit uses of dynamic binding

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org>
> Cc: drew.adams@oracle.com, christopher@librehacker.com,
> 	74261@debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2024 23:32:10 -0500
> 
>   > > So I think that the indicator that this file uses dynamic binding
>   > > ought to be somewhat loud, so that users won't overlook it.
> 
>   > I tend to agree, but only if the file does not already have a
>   > lexical-binding cookie which makes the file use dynamical binding.
> 
> Are you assuming that the person looking at the file
> is also the file's author?  In that situation, I would agree:
> you don't need to be warned that your file is set to use
> dynamic binding if you set it that way yourself.
> 
> But I think it is useful to show this warning when person A looks at
> person B's file.  Person A is likely to assume the file use lexical
> binding, when just about all files do so; therefore, it is useful to
> inform A that this file makes the unusual choice.

That could be the case, yes.

However, another way of looking at such situation is that if the
author (person B) decided the file should use dynamic scoping, that's
"good enough" for person A.  For example, assume that person B is
Emacs maintainers, and the file is part of Emacs.

I guess which POV is taken depends on whether person A is about to
hack on the file, or wants a seep understanding of its workings, or is
just reading the code?

bug#74261: 30.0.92; Remove modeline warning for explicit uses of dynamic binding

[Richard Stallman]

[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]

  > > But I think it is useful to show this warning when person A looks at
  > > person B's file.  Person A is likely to assume the file use lexical
  > > binding, when just about all files do so; therefore, it is useful to
  > > inform A that this file makes the unusual choice.

  > That could be the case, yes.

  > However, another way of looking at such situation is that if the
  > author (person B) decided the file should use dynamic scoping, that's
  > "good enough" for person A.

I think this sentence may have changed the question unintentionally.
"That's good enough for A" means "A should not object to what B
decided".  In that sense, think B's addition of he file variable often
_should_ be good enough for A.

But the question we were discussing is not whether A has a right to
object to B's decision.  It is whether A is aware of B's decision for
that file.  The warning will help make A aware of it.

                                 For example, assume that person B is
  > Emacs maintainers, and the file is part of Emacs.

I think it will be useful to warn A that the file is set up to specify
dynamic binding.

-- 
Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org)
Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org)
Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)

bug#74261: 30.0.92; Remove modeline warning for explicit uses of dynamic binding

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org>
> Cc: christopher@librehacker.com, drew.adams@oracle.com,
> 	74261@debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2024 23:54:25 -0500
> 
>   > > But I think it is useful to show this warning when person A looks at
>   > > person B's file.  Person A is likely to assume the file use lexical
>   > > binding, when just about all files do so; therefore, it is useful to
>   > > inform A that this file makes the unusual choice.
> 
>   > That could be the case, yes.
> 
>   > However, another way of looking at such situation is that if the
>   > author (person B) decided the file should use dynamic scoping, that's
>   > "good enough" for person A.
> 
> I think this sentence may have changed the question unintentionally.
> "That's good enough for A" means "A should not object to what B
> decided".  In that sense, think B's addition of he file variable often
> _should_ be good enough for A.
> 
> But the question we were discussing is not whether A has a right to
> object to B's decision.  It is whether A is aware of B's decision for
> that file.  The warning will help make A aware of it.

What I meant was that "good enough" here means A should not be
bothered or made aware.

>                                  For example, assume that person B is
>   > Emacs maintainers, and the file is part of Emacs.
> 
> I think it will be useful to warn A that the file is set up to specify
> dynamic binding.

I tried to make the point that whether it is useful depends on the
POV.