From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#71370: 30.0.50; Please un-obsolete buffer-substring as a generalized variable Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2024 14:52:38 +0300 Message-ID: <86jzj3k3nd.fsf@gnu.org> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="27156"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: 71370@debbugs.gnu.org To: Adam Porter Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Jun 05 13:54:33 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1sEpDs-0006px-12 for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 05 Jun 2024 13:54:32 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sEpDC-0008UP-5H; Wed, 05 Jun 2024 07:53:50 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sEpDA-0008Tg-85 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 05 Jun 2024 07:53:48 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:5::43]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sEpD9-00027b-VC for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 05 Jun 2024 07:53:47 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1sEpDN-0001xE-Ol for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 05 Jun 2024 07:54:01 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2024 11:54:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 71370 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs Original-Received: via spool by 71370-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B71370.17175883857311 (code B ref 71370); Wed, 05 Jun 2024 11:54:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at 71370) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Jun 2024 11:53:05 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55434 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1sEpCS-0001to-KL for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 05 Jun 2024 07:53:05 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:58286) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1sEpCQ-0001sG-M2 for 71370@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 05 Jun 2024 07:53:03 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sEpC6-000210-8j; Wed, 05 Jun 2024 07:52:42 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-version:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: Date; bh=GfoC/YqiUZQa5YjZZoUM8AF98IrEfI2NEpyvZQm+a+U=; b=VfWO4oo6Ju71yFsdMatV VrYzfeBEATGCcXGSGjJV66JNHnoutzlqOHONPpOo1S1GBqPRkU6lXBWC9XD29Lz58SCUPOJ5rZ2wT MYb2VJWBubz2A24h88wtk+wfEgFlTlyvdp/8n6KDWFZsWIPuoMybIoPX61MgkpKKIUeTkConIdx21 b4m/bJpXJuDBJ5HjDJx3wtG2d1Z+k3qGiG8L2JF2HVNY7qhHXUyl61YH5Lo9tbsFfK53sJRrtKKXX /LnYS2JJIToYwg7gmdCI8UtnxqE+AI1W+z6zBHJyyEQ4ECUWuSWvLGSLeq1rc7ZWg5Aplgwhz1zXa 3gvCLiM2maLfgQ==; In-Reply-To: (message from Adam Porter on Tue, 4 Jun 2024 20:33:13 -0500) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:286594 Archived-At: > Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2024 20:33:13 -0500 > From: Adam Porter > > Continuing with the theme of requesting the unobsoleting of some > generalized variable forms (see [#65555] and [earlier discussion]), and > given Eli's recently [mentioning] the upcoming cut of the Emacs 30 > release branch, I'd like to request now that `buffer-substring' be > unmarked as obsolete. I think it's too late to do this now, not without a very good reason. Unless such a good reason emerges VSN, this will need to wait till Emacs 31 at least. > This form makes some operations much more concise than they would > otherwise be. For example, if one wants to update the text in a > `magit-section' section, the code could be as simple as this: > > ┌──── > │ (let ((inhibit-read-only t)) > │ (setf (buffer-substring (oref (magit-current-section) start) > │ (oref (magit-current-section) end)) > │ "foobar\n")) > └──── > > Otherwise, one would have to use `delete-region' and then `insert', > which is more cumbersome and error-prone. I don't understand why it would be cumbersome, let alone error-prone. Less convenient than using setf, yes, but "cumbersome"? We've been doing that for decades. Use of those specific forms as GV was obsoleted in 48aacbf29 because they are rarely if ever used as GV. Unless this and the other two requests suddenly get crowds of people demanding to un-obsolete them (probably unlikely, since where were those people for the last 2 years?), I think Lars's decision to obsolete them is still solid. IOW, this is just a matter of convenience, nothing more. > As I've mentioned in earlier discussions, the mass-marking of several GV > forms as obsolete in commit 48aacbf292fbe8d4be7761f83bf87de93497df27 > happened apparently without public discussion, as well as without > checking the extent to which they are used outside of emacs.git. We don't discuss obsoletion, because it is never final. The rationale for obsoleting those forms is explained in the log message, so I think the implied accusation here is misplaced. > By the way, I'd also like to request that the `point' and `window-point' > GV forms be unobsoleted, for the same reasons. If it's permissible, I'd > like to do so here rather than file separate bug reports for each of > those, but if the maintainers prefer, I will do so. Let's see how many people want that now.