bug#74673: 30.0.92; face warning on legal elisp syntax

bug#74673: 30.0.92; face warning on legal elisp syntax

[Christopher Howard]

Hi, in Elisp buffers, I am occasionally seeing a face warning (red colored on my system) for what appears to be fully legal and functional syntax. Here is a recent example:

1. emacs -Q
2. paste the following into the *scratch* buffer

``` elisp
(t-transduce
 (t-scan
  (lambda (s c)
    (concatenate 'string s (string c))) "")
 #'t-cons
 "hello")
```

On my system, the text «"")», at the end of the «concatenate» line, is given font-lock-warning-face. Is this a bug, or some kind of warning about bad elisp style?


In GNU Emacs 30.0.92 (build 1, x86_64-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version
 3.24.41, cairo version 1.18.0) of 2024-11-26 built on theoden
Repository revision: fc17e8727d48c32f2610c6fe7c17147bff7be52b
Repository branch: emacs-30
Windowing system distributor 'The X.Org Foundation', version 11.0.12101012
System Description: Guix System

Configured using:
 'configure --prefix=/home/christopher/local/emacs 'CFLAGS=-O0 -g3'
 PKG_CONFIG_PATH=/gnu/store/f335yc4x4ps0qalm4hafy0dggsfczfkj-profile/lib/pkgconfig:/gnu/store/f335yc4x4ps0qalm4hafy0dggsfczfkj-profile/share/pkgconfig:/home/christopher/.guix-home/profile/lib/pkgconfig:/home/christopher/.guix-home/profile/share/pkgconfig:/home/christopher/.guix-profile/lib/pkgconfig:/home/christopher/.guix-profile/share/pkgconfig'

Configured features:
ACL CAIRO DBUS FREETYPE GIF GLIB GMP GNUTLS GPM GSETTINGS HARFBUZZ JPEG
LCMS2 LIBSELINUX LIBXML2 MODULES NOTIFY INOTIFY PDUMPER PNG RSVG SECCOMP
SOUND SQLITE3 THREADS TIFF TOOLKIT_SCROLL_BARS X11 XDBE XIM XINPUT2 XPM
GTK3 ZLIB

Important settings:
  value of $EMACSLOADPATH: /home/christopher/local/emacs/share/emacs/30.0.92/lisp:/home/christopher/.guix-home/profile/share/emacs/site-lisp
  value of $EMACSNATIVELOADPATH: /home/christopher/local/emacs/share/emacs/30.0.92/lisp:/home/christopher/.guix-home/profile/lib/emacs/native-site-lisp
  value of $LANG: en_US.utf8
  locale-coding-system: utf-8-unix

Major mode: Org

Minor modes in effect:
  repeat-mode: t
  global-git-commit-mode: t
  magit-auto-revert-mode: t
  auto-revert-mode: t
  pdf-occur-global-minor-mode: t
  rcirc-track-minor-mode: t
  roam-track-minor-mode: t
  org-roam-db-autosync-mode: t
  server-mode: t
  helm-mode: t
  helm-minibuffer-history-mode: t
  async-bytecomp-package-mode: t
  minibuffer-depth-indicate-mode: t
  global-display-line-numbers-mode: t
  display-line-numbers-mode: t
  cl-old-struct-compat-mode: 1
  tooltip-mode: t
  global-eldoc-mode: t
  show-paren-mode: t
  electric-indent-mode: t
  mouse-wheel-mode: t
  file-name-shadow-mode: t
  global-font-lock-mode: t
  font-lock-mode: t
  minibuffer-regexp-mode: t
  column-number-mode: t
  line-number-mode: t
  transient-mark-mode: t
  auto-composition-mode: t
  auto-encryption-mode: t
  auto-compression-mode: t

Load-path shadows:
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/home/christopher/local/emacs/share/emacs/30.0.92/lisp/org/oc hides /gnu/store/qyq6c0w2r1yabwyghpqzasqw9n2y0i37-emacs-org-9.7.14/share/emacs/site-lisp/org-9.7.14/oc
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Features:
(shadow emacsbug repeat company pcmpl-unix checkdoc lisp-mnt flymake
magit-bookmark magit-submodule magit-blame magit-stash magit-reflog
magit-bisect magit-push magit-pull magit-fetch magit-clone magit-remote
magit-commit magit-sequence magit-notes magit-worktree magit-tag
magit-merge magit-branch magit-reset magit-files magit-refs magit-status
magit magit-repos magit-apply magit-wip magit-log which-func magit-diff
smerge-mode diff git-commit log-edit pcvs-util magit-core
magit-autorevert autorevert magit-margin magit-transient magit-process
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fringe tabulated-list replace newcomment text-mode lisp-mode prog-mode
register page tab-bar menu-bar rfn-eshadow isearch easymenu timer select
scroll-bar mouse jit-lock font-lock syntax font-core term/tty-colors
frame minibuffer nadvice seq simple cl-generic indonesian philippine
cham georgian utf-8-lang misc-lang vietnamese tibetan thai tai-viet lao
korean japanese eucjp-ms cp51932 hebrew greek romanian slovak czech
european ethiopic indian cyrillic chinese composite emoji-zwj charscript
charprop case-table epa-hook jka-cmpr-hook help abbrev obarray oclosure
cl-preloaded button loaddefs theme-loaddefs faces cus-face macroexp
files window text-properties overlay sha1 md5 base64 format env
code-pages mule custom widget keymap hashtable-print-readable backquote
threads dbusbind inotify lcms2 dynamic-setting system-font-setting
font-render-setting cairo gtk x-toolkit xinput2 x multi-tty move-toolbar
make-network-process emacs)

Memory information:
((conses 16 1933582 380172) (symbols 48 55975 91)
 (strings 32 299372 30530) (string-bytes 1 40712967)
 (vectors 16 161843) (vector-slots 8 2327694 253724)
 (floats 8 8393 29863) (intervals 56 106413 11802) (buffers 984 155))

-- 
📛 Christopher Howard
🚀 gemini://gem.librehacker.com
🌐 http://gem.librehacker.com

בראשית ברא אלהים את השמים ואת הארץ

bug#74673: 30.0.92; face warning on legal elisp syntax

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Christopher Howard <christopher@librehacker.com>
> Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2024 09:49:03 -0900
> 
> Hi, in Elisp buffers, I am occasionally seeing a face warning (red colored on my system) for what appears to be fully legal and functional syntax. Here is a recent example:
> 
> 1. emacs -Q
> 2. paste the following into the *scratch* buffer
> 
> ``` elisp
> (t-transduce
>  (t-scan
>   (lambda (s c)
>     (concatenate 'string s (string c))) "")
>  #'t-cons
>  "hello")
> ```
> 
> On my system, the text «"")», at the end of the «concatenate» line, is given font-lock-warning-face. Is this a bug, or some kind of warning about bad elisp style?

The latter, I think.  If you insert a newline before that "", does the
warning face go away?

bug#74673: 30.0.92; face warning on legal elisp syntax

[Christopher Howard]

Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:

> The latter, I think.  If you insert a newline before that "", does the
> warning face go away?

Yes, it does go away.

If this is a style warning

(1) could we clarify what rule I'm breaking, exactly? Is this rule something I can toggle on/off?

(2) should we consider using a distinct face for style warnings?

I don't personally see a problem with putting a small argument at the end of a line, to save screen line space, though I wouldn't mind following the rule if it was set in somebody else's project.

-- 
Christopher Howard

bug#74673: 30.0.92; face warning on legal elisp syntax

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Christopher Howard <christopher@librehacker.com>
> Cc: 74673@debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2024 10:19:18 -0900
> 
> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
> 
> > The latter, I think.  If you insert a newline before that "", does the
> > warning face go away?
> 
> Yes, it does go away.
> 
> If this is a style warning

It is.

> (1) could we clarify what rule I'm breaking, exactly? Is this rule something I can toggle on/off?

Move the mouse pointer there and wait for a split-second: you will see
the answer in a tooltip.

> (2) should we consider using a distinct face for style warnings?

What's wrong with font-lock-warning-face?

> I don't personally see a problem with putting a small argument at the end of a line, to save screen line space, though I wouldn't mind following the rule if it was set in somebody else's project.

See the explanation in the tooltip.

bug#74673: 30.0.92; face warning on legal elisp syntax

[Christopher Howard]

Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:

> Move the mouse pointer there and wait for a split-second: you will see
> the answer in a tooltip.
>

Is there a way to view tooltips without making any use of the mouse? I see that I can get tooltips displayed in the echo area, but apparently I still must utilize the mouse to see the tooltip in the first place.

>> (2) should we consider using a distinct face for style warnings?
>
> What's wrong with font-lock-warning-face?
>

In my mind, a style warning is significantly different from a warning about somethat that might cause my code to malfunction when run or compiled. If there was a face specific to style warnings, I would make it a distinct and less dramatic face appearance.

I see this warning is hard coded in lisp-mode.el. There does not appear to be an option to turn this warning on or off, though I suppose I could replace lisp--match-hidden-arg with something that always returns not-matching.

-- 
Christopher Howard

bug#74673: 30.0.92; face warning on legal elisp syntax

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Christopher Howard <christopher@librehacker.com>
> Cc: 74673@debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2024 11:48:19 -0900
> 
> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
> 
> > Move the mouse pointer there and wait for a split-second: you will see
> > the answer in a tooltip.
> >
> 
> Is there a way to view tooltips without making any use of the mouse? I see that I can get tooltips displayed in the echo area, but apparently I still must utilize the mouse to see the tooltip in the first place.

Some nice features of the UI need the mouse, yes, and there's no
(easy) way around that.  That said, you can go to the "" part and type
"M-x describe-text-properties", which will pop a buffer that tells you
there's a help-echo property at that spot, and show a button which you
could press to have the text shown in the echo-area.

If you really need to be able to show tool tips without the mouse, you
can write a simple function to show its text in the echo-area.
However, most tooltips are shown on UI parts where you cannot go, so
such a command will be of somewhat limited use.

> >> (2) should we consider using a distinct face for style warnings?
> >
> > What's wrong with font-lock-warning-face?
> >
> 
> In my mind, a style warning is significantly different from a warning about somethat that might cause my code to malfunction when run or compiled. If there was a face specific to style warnings, I would make it a distinct and less dramatic face appearance.

It's the same case: we show this in the warning face because
oftentimes this is a mistaken code, because it's easy to misinterpret.

> I see this warning is hard coded in lisp-mode.el. There does not appear to be an option to turn this warning on or off, though I suppose I could replace lisp--match-hidden-arg with something that always returns not-matching.

This is Emacs, so you can do almost everything with it.  But my
recommendation is to get used to this warning face: it saved me from
trouble several times, and I'm sure others have similar experiences to
report.

bug#74673: 30.0.92; face warning on legal elisp syntax

[Christopher Howard]

Now that I know that I know more about what is going on, and it isn't a bug, I'll close this bug report. Regarding the style system, I think I would rather just go with the flow of the way things are rather than fight for any specific changes.

-- 
Christopher Howard

bug#74673: 30.0.92; face warning on legal elisp syntax

[Kévin Le Gouguec]

Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:

>> From: Christopher Howard <christopher@librehacker.com>
>> Cc: 74673@debbugs.gnu.org
>> Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2024 11:48:19 -0900
>> 
>> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
>> 
>> > Move the mouse pointer there and wait for a split-second: you will see
>> > the answer in a tooltip.
>> >
>> 
>> Is there a way to view tooltips without making any use of the mouse? I see that I can get tooltips displayed in the echo area, but apparently I still must utilize the mouse to see the tooltip in the first place.
>
> Some nice features of the UI need the mouse, yes, and there's no
> (easy) way around that.  That said, you can go to the "" part and type
> "M-x describe-text-properties", which will pop a buffer that tells you
> there's a help-echo property at that spot, and show a button which you
> could press to have the text shown in the echo-area.
>
> If you really need to be able to show tool tips without the mouse, you
> can write a simple function to show its text in the echo-area.
> However, most tooltips are shown on UI parts where you cannot go, so
> such a command will be of somewhat limited use.

Apologies if I missed something: this specific diagnostic is also
visible with 'C-h .', right?

Feeling like this is worth mentioning because IME a lot of "mouse-bound"
information is actually reachable with display-local-help; though of
course describe-text-properties is definitely a useful tool to have in
one's kit (I usually reach for 'C-u C-x =' FWIW).

>> >> (2) should we consider using a distinct face for style warnings?
>> >
>> > What's wrong with font-lock-warning-face?
>> >
>> 
>> In my mind, a style warning is significantly different from a warning about somethat that might cause my code to malfunction when run or compiled. If there was a face specific to style warnings, I would make it a distinct and less dramatic face appearance.
>
> It's the same case: we show this in the warning face because
> oftentimes this is a mistaken code, because it's easy to misinterpret.

(IMHO the flymake-warning face (wavy underline) would be less
surprising; in fact I find this style check being part of the "regular"
font-locking a bit surprising too, this is the kind of opt-in linting
I'd expect of flymake 🤷)

bug#74673: 30.0.92; face warning on legal elisp syntax

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Kévin Le Gouguec <kevin.legouguec@gmail.com>
> Cc: Christopher Howard <christopher@librehacker.com>,  74673@debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2024 18:12:06 +0100
> 
> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
> 
> > Some nice features of the UI need the mouse, yes, and there's no
> > (easy) way around that.  That said, you can go to the "" part and type
> > "M-x describe-text-properties", which will pop a buffer that tells you
> > there's a help-echo property at that spot, and show a button which you
> > could press to have the text shown in the echo-area.
> >
> > If you really need to be able to show tool tips without the mouse, you
> > can write a simple function to show its text in the echo-area.
> > However, most tooltips are shown on UI parts where you cannot go, so
> > such a command will be of somewhat limited use.
> 
> Apologies if I missed something: this specific diagnostic is also
> visible with 'C-h .', right?

Yes.

> Feeling like this is worth mentioning because IME a lot of "mouse-bound"
> information is actually reachable with display-local-help; though of
> course describe-text-properties is definitely a useful tool to have in
> one's kit (I usually reach for 'C-u C-x =' FWIW).

If only that command had a more descriptive name...

> (IMHO the flymake-warning face (wavy underline) would be less
> surprising; in fact I find this style check being part of the "regular"
> font-locking a bit surprising too, this is the kind of opt-in linting
> I'd expect of flymake 🤷)

The wavy underline is used by flyspell-mode to show mis-spellings, so
I at least would be confused by seeing it on code.

bug#74673: 30.0.92; face warning on legal elisp syntax

[Jim Porter]

On 12/4/2024 4:23 AM, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> If you really need to be able to show tool tips without the mouse, you
> can write a simple function to show its text in the echo-area.
> However, most tooltips are shown on UI parts where you cannot go, so
> such a command will be of somewhat limited use.

Flymake has an option for displaying diagnostic messages in-line: 
'flymake-show-diagnostics-at-end-of-line'. Maybe we could make Elisp 
mode use Flymake's facilities for marking the warning when it's active?

bug#74673: 30.0.92; face warning on legal elisp syntax

[Eli Zaretskii]

> Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2024 09:51:59 -0800
> Cc: 74673@debbugs.gnu.org
> From: Jim Porter <jporterbugs@gmail.com>
> 
> On 12/4/2024 4:23 AM, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> > If you really need to be able to show tool tips without the mouse, you
> > can write a simple function to show its text in the echo-area.
> > However, most tooltips are shown on UI parts where you cannot go, so
> > such a command will be of somewhat limited use.
> 
> Flymake has an option for displaying diagnostic messages in-line: 
> 'flymake-show-diagnostics-at-end-of-line'. Maybe we could make Elisp 
> mode use Flymake's facilities for marking the warning when it's active?

I don't like features that use overlays to show long text, because
they case problems.  And in this case we already have a feature that
will display the tool-tip text in the echo-area: customize
help-at-pt-display-when-idle to the value t.