From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#70784: Abolish string resizing Date: Tue, 07 May 2024 14:19:40 +0300 Message-ID: <867cg5c1ir.fsf@gnu.org> References: <86wmo7b2pz.fsf@gnu.org> <87y18n3z9n.fsf@yahoo.com> Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="40778"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: mattias.engdegard@gmail.com, 70784@debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca To: Po Lu Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue May 07 13:21:04 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1s4Isa-000AR4-1i for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 07 May 2024 13:21:04 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1s4IsB-0006WJ-NP; Tue, 07 May 2024 07:20:39 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1s4Is9-0006Sx-NF for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 07 May 2024 07:20:37 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:5::43]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1s4Is9-0005nL-DF for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 07 May 2024 07:20:37 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1s4IsY-0000Px-3r for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 07 May 2024 07:21:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 07 May 2024 11:21:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 70784 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs Original-Received: via spool by 70784-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B70784.17150808591587 (code B ref 70784); Tue, 07 May 2024 11:21:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 70784) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 May 2024 11:20:59 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42561 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1s4IsU-0000PX-7R for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 07 May 2024 07:20:59 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:52238) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1s4IsK-0000PL-CQ for 70784@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 07 May 2024 07:20:56 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1s4Irn-0005Ng-Al; Tue, 07 May 2024 07:20:15 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=sd7NOE0h8oWPg+xiGMYxqE9GQ0NhAHmbTa5V584fu/E=; b=lo2iXdAIxHNk IiqqdoN8c4qQ/A7diGvopgbnPDGlulV6fkzJiB/OEOtC4f5xUBsQusebqvvrVpZhVfkd1I5dm2a7+ xjRBQ4S//AtnPWBf6VSrlK+PdNQXCHf4GbGMWG4aBYd2hwkkW4CZRJstp6cghuxubo4+88emoZqxG 0OLZ+I2n2nZI4jVAn5whk5mKwxV8njk6v3VyNgwEr0fxRZL1JJZFTANwWR4TpQU7AL8CA5h0yXdqf YHCcvzvjCDEo9fEQ3YjeJY0qyEa1zeK4A08oO1yb+wiwn+zwfYHyQz8EZPWxPldZ+f3xP/LP8h9eJ 5P4M9dDojed1ts8Vd8fMyw==; In-Reply-To: <87y18n3z9n.fsf@yahoo.com> (message from Po Lu on Mon, 06 May 2024 20:23:16 +0800) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:284636 Archived-At: > From: Po Lu > Cc: mattias.engdegard@gmail.com, 70784@debbugs.gnu.org, > monnier@iro.umontreal.ca > Date: Mon, 06 May 2024 20:23:16 +0800 > > Eli Zaretskii writes: > > > We are not going to abandon backward-compatibility considerations. > > But refusing to discuss significant changes just because they have > > compatibility issues is throwing the proverbial baby with the > > bathwater. Refusing changes is of course 110% backward-compatible, > > but it has many disadvantages, to say the least. Instead, we should > > see how to keep compatibility, to the extent that we consider it > > important, without blocking changes which could potentially help us > > adopting new technologies and improving performance. > > These principles are no doubt valid in general, but please consider what > is the feature whose continued existence is being called into question! > `(aset string n foo)' has been possible and countenanced for ages Which is why this is not the feature that was suggested to be abolished. Please leave strawmen and red herrings out of this discussion. No one in their right mind will agree to removal of 'aset' for strings in general. > the performance of strings has never been a source of user > complaint. You are very wrong. String performance in Emacs is a known problem, as evidenced by the fact that we recommend that Lisp programs use buffers in preference to strings. I'm not saying that going with this proposal will necessarily make the problem less severe, just that your over-reaching argument is patently incorrect. > Without such a plain justification and a clear strategy for evaluating > whether the results so produced meet expectations, there really is no > detriment in categorically dismissing proposals to alter them, until > such time, if ever, as these conditions are created. No one said that we will accept this change based on performance considerations without seeing some performance data.