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From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>
To: Michael Heerdegen <michael_heerdegen@web.de>
Cc: 73709@debbugs.gnu.org, drew.adams@oracle.com
Subject: bug#73709: 29.4; Doc of `file-newer-than-file-p'
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2024 08:54:07 +0300	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <867ca8r3sw.fsf@gnu.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <87o73kbsaq.fsf@web.de> (message from Michael Heerdegen on Wed, 16 Oct 2024 06:11:41 +0200)

> From: Michael Heerdegen <michael_heerdegen@web.de>
> Cc: drew.adams@oracle.com,  73709@debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2024 06:11:41 +0200
> 
> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
> 
> > "Last saved" assumes the file is edited, but this function doesn't
> > care whether a file has been edited.  "Last written to" might be
> > better.
> 
> Ok - "last written" then.
> 
> > But the problem for which I find no good solution is that there are
> > ways to make the filesystem lie to us about when was file last written
> > to: use set-file-times in Emacs or the 'touch' shell command or
> > anything similar.
> 
> Sure.  But I thought we want to explain the abstraction?  So, if you
> don't want to lie, why not say "in general this means the times when the
> files were last written" or so?  As you said we _don't_ want to go to
> the level of implementation and file system specific details - so why
> discuss them at all?  There are always details a short description
> doesn't cover ("newer" also didn't cover them).
> 
> Of course you can add that "details depend on capabilities and features
> of the used file system and the chosen implementation (Tramp)".  We do
> say similar things in other docstrings, too.

Two issues:

  . "last written to" is incorrect if that time stamp was modified by
    set-file-times and similar methods
  . the interpretation of mtime to mean "newer" (per the function's
    name) is problematic/incorrect when a file is copied with the
    KEEP-TIME argument of copy-file (and similar facilities of other
    commands, like 'cp')

I'm asking whether we care about these subtleties.  E.g., someone
might claim that the second issue above means that
file-newer-than-file-p has a bug.

The current doc string says simply that last-modification times are
compared, and I wonder if that is not better left alone.





  reply	other threads:[~2024-10-16  5:54 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 39+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2024-10-08 17:56 bug#73709: 29.4; Doc of `file-newer-than-file-p' Drew Adams via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2024-10-08 18:20 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-10-08 18:40   ` Drew Adams via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2024-10-09  0:45     ` Michael Heerdegen via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2024-10-09 13:31       ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-10-09 16:32         ` Drew Adams via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2024-10-09 23:21         ` Michael Heerdegen via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2024-10-10  8:09           ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-10-10 11:08             ` Michael Albinus via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2024-10-11  0:23             ` Michael Heerdegen via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2024-10-11  5:56               ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-10-12  0:31                 ` Michael Heerdegen via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2024-10-12  8:40                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-10-12 22:48                     ` Michael Heerdegen via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2024-10-13  5:13                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-10-13 14:51                         ` Drew Adams via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2024-10-13 15:31                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-10-13 17:01                             ` Drew Adams via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2024-10-13 18:30                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-10-13 22:23                                 ` Drew Adams via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2024-10-14  2:28                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-10-15  1:10                             ` Michael Heerdegen via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2024-10-15 13:46                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-10-15 14:20                                 ` Drew Adams via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2024-10-15 14:51                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-10-15 15:01                                     ` Ship Mints
2024-10-15 16:21                                       ` Drew Adams via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2024-10-15 16:23                                       ` Michael Albinus via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2024-10-15 16:24                                         ` Ship Mints
2024-10-16  4:11                                 ` Michael Heerdegen via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2024-10-16  5:54                                   ` Eli Zaretskii [this message]
2024-10-18  1:32                                     ` Michael Heerdegen via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2024-10-09 23:42         ` Stefan Kangas
2024-10-10  1:47           ` Drew Adams via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2024-10-10  8:26           ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-10-11  0:41             ` Michael Heerdegen via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2024-10-11  6:03               ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-10-12  0:38                 ` Michael Heerdegen via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2024-10-12  1:13                   ` Drew Adams via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors

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