From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#73709: 29.4; Doc of `file-newer-than-file-p' Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2024 16:31:50 +0300 Message-ID: <864j5l4d2x.fsf@gnu.org> References: <86h69msbhi.fsf@gnu.org> <87set6aytj.fsf@web.de> Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="35618"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: 73709@debbugs.gnu.org, drew.adams@oracle.com To: Michael Heerdegen Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Oct 09 15:33:28 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1syWoh-000931-TH for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 09 Oct 2024 15:33:28 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1syWoM-0008GU-PJ; Wed, 09 Oct 2024 09:33:08 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1syWo9-0008GF-Jb for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 09 Oct 2024 09:32:54 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:5::43]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1syWo8-0003jf-7m for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 09 Oct 2024 09:32:52 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=debbugs.gnu.org; s=debbugs-gnu-org; h=References:In-Reply-To:From:Date:To:Subject; bh=EfXFLcqo2iMiPoNjcaS8OLWC6TLuO4ZM6KAeAPjVdTM=; b=gvOxTSLNBnsTh6UnaFUdGrTKZgRlN72icA+svxADFZgnc+JBG/HIQbRIEq82rT6BZdhp9fTRLk6nDSr2FozCHugyi+zo9Da0j/h3c6tItPHvYhJQvlN1eCrLEgEL0std+tnKe5ReXW70lpO6uQLfxxRGrILoVD7VSGlFHkw/kjWKpT2ZCRvDE9LIgrdFzMLA6SmFTwChA6P15nqzwh/9ReXX6TcwsUy4pQBpv8okSdOhrF4WldJ4UsRHoHEEXcY20u/96mr2B9u8ww6s2Yp+L55lpU2zoOQDefDl1F91G8FmPrixN5TJ9LZ/F1B2ODyGizIe5WXQ+woBHEqUlsFS9Q==; Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1syWoH-0007v1-V6 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 09 Oct 2024 09:33:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2024 13:33:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 73709 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: notabug wontfix Original-Received: via spool by 73709-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B73709.172848073730378 (code B ref 73709); Wed, 09 Oct 2024 13:33:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at 73709) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 Oct 2024 13:32:17 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56021 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1syWnZ-0007tu-9a for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 09 Oct 2024 09:32:17 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:42254) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1syWnW-0007td-Ik for 73709@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 09 Oct 2024 09:32:15 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1syWnG-0003h0-3k; Wed, 09 Oct 2024 09:31:58 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=EfXFLcqo2iMiPoNjcaS8OLWC6TLuO4ZM6KAeAPjVdTM=; b=SIa+HgEX3s8c wp2HNy3jxyS7jfqutmYlpCYqt4fnZymDpuVbdG/Lhj8JfSe/CXmG9K/SWyCl34QeoWmcyd2Hd01K7 NlC+2/vaD7gGL0JOhAai4iOQrX4NqLWo6NQTkNtDf+s0BDIoTm74bnpFPKM2aGW/g0j3BGhXb23m4 3YEux0nY7SiqvRiBEvCFd5xUeUnW4z3Pi7uTsmoviIQvocyd6BSx5HKUlvm1VhGHYgx3tx5cqZChQ 5ZrYnarV3WrSITtBRIWS9vu8+8CG75ffO9xA6ltIoI3pTgkvYoEKFlD6E7hVGRqT9pRk3cbQM6iOR DxGXzN1kH2CkTIuJcLm9PA==; In-Reply-To: <87set6aytj.fsf@web.de> (message from Michael Heerdegen on Wed, 09 Oct 2024 02:45:44 +0200) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:293209 Archived-At: > From: Michael Heerdegen > Cc: Eli Zaretskii , Drew Adams , > "73709@debbugs.gnu.org" <73709@debbugs.gnu.org> > Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2024 02:45:44 +0200 > > Drew Adams via "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text > editors" writes: > > > It's not about any implementation details. It's about > > what's meant here by "newer". And the answer is that > > it's about the recentness of the last modification. > > It's not obvious that the time that a file existed is not meant. > Creation time is what came to my mind, and I find the actual meaning a > bit surprising. Maybe I even didn't use this function where I should > have and reinvented the thing because of a wrong expectation. So a +1 > from me for trying to make it clearer. Are you sure this is a good idea? If the user who reads the doc string doesn't know the meaning of "the file is newer", how can we be sure she knows the meaning of "file's last modification time"? What is "last modification"? does changing the file's mode bits constitute "modification"? does renaming the file or moving it to another directory constitute "modification"? what is the meaning of "last modification time" of a directory? etc. etc. -- do we have now to explain all of that in our documentation? And if we don't explain that, what exactly did we gain? replacement of one allegedly unclear term by another?