From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#12187: 24.1.50; Regression: `Info-breadcrumbs-depth' should show `File:' without ".info" suffix Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2012 09:10:44 -0700 Message-ID: <8595694B4937406D9918DAF1268002E5@us.oracle.com> References: <141A4CE652D543A4B079D9409CD4C2E3@us.oracle.com> <83boif7bxi.fsf@gnu.org> <837A4A5337854402803C885693F4CD76@us.oracle.com> <838vdi7q5n.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1344874299 1470 80.91.229.3 (13 Aug 2012 16:11:39 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2012 16:11:39 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 12187@debbugs.gnu.org, karl@freefriends.org To: "'Eli Zaretskii'" Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Aug 13 18:11:38 2012 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1T0xEt-0006Ur-1e for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Mon, 13 Aug 2012 18:11:35 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:56163 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1T0xEr-0007yC-VM for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Mon, 13 Aug 2012 12:11:33 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:47742) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1T0xEo-0007y1-RB for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 13 Aug 2012 12:11:31 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1T0xEn-0003AF-GO for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 13 Aug 2012 12:11:30 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.43]:44216) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1T0xEn-0003AB-Ca for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 13 Aug 2012 12:11:29 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1T0xN4-0000U4-19 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 13 Aug 2012 12:20:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: "Drew Adams" Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2012 16:20:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 12187 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 12187-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B12187.13448747651813 (code B ref 12187); Mon, 13 Aug 2012 16:20:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at 12187) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Aug 2012 16:19:25 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53762 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1T0xMS-0000TB-Ja for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 13 Aug 2012 12:19:25 -0400 Original-Received: from rcsinet15.oracle.com ([148.87.113.117]:42932) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1T0xMQ-0000T4-Gy for 12187@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 13 Aug 2012 12:19:23 -0400 Original-Received: from ucsinet22.oracle.com (ucsinet22.oracle.com [156.151.31.94]) by rcsinet15.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2) with ESMTP id q7DGAld8001006 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 13 Aug 2012 16:10:48 GMT Original-Received: from acsmt356.oracle.com (acsmt356.oracle.com [141.146.40.156]) by ucsinet22.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q7DGAk4C013750 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 13 Aug 2012 16:10:47 GMT Original-Received: from abhmt115.oracle.com (abhmt115.oracle.com [141.146.116.67]) by acsmt356.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id q7DGAjad000900; Mon, 13 Aug 2012 11:10:46 -0500 Original-Received: from dradamslap1 (/130.35.178.248) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Mon, 13 Aug 2012 09:10:45 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <838vdi7q5n.fsf@gnu.org> Thread-Index: Ac15aolD8QluCKpoSaqWrtq0qOJmwAAAf8Rw X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6157 X-Source-IP: ucsinet22.oracle.com [156.151.31.94] X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-Received-From: 140.186.70.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:63106 Archived-At: > > Eli, can you speak more of the advantage of showing the > > suffix? E.g., are there cases where there might be more than > > one manual with the same file name except for the suffix? > > Yes, there could be more than one manual with the same name, however > unlikely. Not sure how important that is, though. I would think that the suffix is not very important, and I have not heard anything to the contrary. If the user had access to two manuals in different _locations_ but with the same name, then I can see an advantage in somehow making the full file name evident. (The file location is available in Emacs via `pwd' etc.) But I do not see an advantage in showing the suffix if there are two files in the same location, one with suffix .info and the other without it. > > And could you elaborate on how this relates to other Info readers > > and why it can be important to show the suffix? > > What you see is simply the header line of every node, verbatim, as > makeinfo generates it. If you visit the Info file literally, that is > what you will see there at the beginning of each node. I don't think > there's some deep philosophy here, just tradition and KISS, really. I agree with Stefan - please elide the suffix in Emacs, at least. That could be done during rendering, if you do not think that makeinfo should do it generally. >From an Emacs _user_ perspective this is a regression. Whereas, before, `File:' indicated only the manual, now it shows also a file-name suffix. Arguments saying, in effect, "but that _is_ the file" would be logically the same if Emacs suddenly started showing the full file name ("path") in that field. What is useful to users is the non-directory and non-suffix part of the file name: "elisp". Especially since the suffix has no special meaning: there are not different Info-file suffixes with different meanings, AFAIK. For users, the suffix is noise.