From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#15810: 24.3.50; inappropriate text in (emacs) `Echo Area' Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2013 09:14:35 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <8439332c-eb08-4dc1-bed9-c947baa68903@default> References: <<6e7c805d-a5fe-499b-9a1c-e0ee1e81dec9@default>> <<831u2u94af.fsf@gnu.org>> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1383671736 5031 80.91.229.3 (5 Nov 2013 17:15:36 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2013 17:15:36 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 15810@debbugs.gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Nov 05 18:15:39 2013 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1VdkE6-0003dc-Od for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 05 Nov 2013 18:15:38 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:57599 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VdkE6-0001Np-9Y for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 05 Nov 2013 12:15:38 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:56865) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VdkDh-0000qP-1u for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 05 Nov 2013 12:15:21 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VdkDX-0003CN-4T for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 05 Nov 2013 12:15:11 -0500 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.43]:50286) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VdkDW-0003B3-PC for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 05 Nov 2013 12:15:02 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VdkDW-0006gl-8q for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 05 Nov 2013 12:15:02 -0500 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2013 17:15:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 15810 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 15810-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B15810.138367168725679 (code B ref 15810); Tue, 05 Nov 2013 17:15:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 15810) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Nov 2013 17:14:47 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36072 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VdkDG-0006g7-Iv for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 05 Nov 2013 12:14:46 -0500 Original-Received: from userp1040.oracle.com ([156.151.31.81]:39463) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VdkDD-0006fo-MA for 15810@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 05 Nov 2013 12:14:44 -0500 Original-Received: from ucsinet21.oracle.com (ucsinet21.oracle.com [156.151.31.93]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.1/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.1) with ESMTP id rA5HEbhw011059 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 5 Nov 2013 17:14:37 GMT Original-Received: from aserz7021.oracle.com (aserz7021.oracle.com [141.146.126.230]) by ucsinet21.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id rA5HEaSV000629 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 5 Nov 2013 17:14:36 GMT Original-Received: from abhmt113.oracle.com (abhmt113.oracle.com [141.146.116.65]) by aserz7021.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id rA5HEaXT019842; Tue, 5 Nov 2013 17:14:36 GMT In-Reply-To: <<831u2u94af.fsf@gnu.org>> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.8 (707110) [OL 12.0.6680.5000 (x86)] X-Source-IP: ucsinet21.oracle.com [156.151.31.93] X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 140.186.70.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:80034 Archived-At: > > This text has no business being there: > > > > (We have not explained buffers yet; see *note Buffers::, > > for more information about them.) >=20 > It is appropriate for when the manual is read as a book, linearly. It is unnecessary in that rare case. And it is inappropriate in the far more common (in fact, typical) case: when the passage is not read after reading all of the text linearly, starting from page one. Read the bug report, which says that it is not appropriate for the *hypertext* manual. Leave it in for the printed manual, if you like (though even there it is not needed - a forward cross reference should stand on its own). > (We have not explained variables either; see *note Variables::, > for more information about them.) > > Irrelevant. What is irrelevant? The quoted text from the manual? Yes, except for the cross reference it is irrelevant - no, worse, it is misleading and can confuse. > This is not a bug, closing. It is a bug. Such text simply does not belong in hypertext doc. The cross references should remain. The verbiage about your not having explained XXXX yet is not appropriate for hypertext doc. (And you should know that by now.) Reopening.