From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#9571: 24.0.50; user option to turn off bidi, please Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2011 14:01:57 +0300 Message-ID: <83zkhvr07u.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87obybg01n.fsf@gmail.com> <87hb43fsq0.fsf@gmail.com> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1316775768 21998 80.91.229.12 (23 Sep 2011 11:02:48 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2011 11:02:48 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 9571@debbugs.gnu.org, lekktu@gmail.com To: =?UTF-8?Q?=C5=A0t=C4=9Bp=C3=A1n_?= =?UTF-8?Q?N=C4=9Bmec?= Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Sep 23 13:02:43 2011 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([140.186.70.17]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R73Wj-00049K-RP for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 23 Sep 2011 13:02:42 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:36401 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1R73Wj-000348-5E for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 23 Sep 2011 07:02:41 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:41788) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1R73Wf-000342-VK for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 23 Sep 2011 07:02:39 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1R73We-0004GO-LY for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 23 Sep 2011 07:02:37 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.43]:46975) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1R73We-0004GK-K2 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 23 Sep 2011 07:02:36 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R73X3-0000CE-WC for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 23 Sep 2011 07:03:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2011 11:03:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 9571 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: wontfix Original-Received: via spool by 9571-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B9571.1316775773739 (code B ref 9571); Fri, 23 Sep 2011 11:03:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at 9571) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Sep 2011 11:02:53 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R73Wt-0000Br-Ta for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 23 Sep 2011 07:02:52 -0400 Original-Received: from mtaout20.012.net.il ([80.179.55.166]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R73Ws-0000Bj-2K for 9571@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 23 Sep 2011 07:02:51 -0400 Original-Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout20.012.net.il by a-mtaout20.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0LRZ00H002N8TK00@a-mtaout20.012.net.il> for 9571@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 23 Sep 2011 14:01:56 +0300 (IDT) Original-Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([84.228.8.215]) by a-mtaout20.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0LRZ00HU32N70HL0@a-mtaout20.012.net.il>; Fri, 23 Sep 2011 14:01:56 +0300 (IDT) In-reply-to: <87hb43fsq0.fsf@gmail.com> X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list Resent-Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2011 07:03:01 -0400 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 1) X-Received-From: 140.186.70.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:51702 Archived-At: > From: =C5=A0t=C4=9Bp=C3=A1n N=C4=9Bmec > =09 > Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2011 12:39:19 +0200 > Cc: 9571@debbugs.gnu.org >=20 > On Fri, 23 Sep 2011 11:21:02 +0200 > Juanma Barranquero wrote: >=20 > > OOH, there was a time when suggesting that the user adds somethin= g to > > .emacs, like > > > > (setq-default bidi-display-reordering nil) > > > > was not considered obscure. Not everything must go through the > > customization interface. >=20 > It's certainly good enough to me, but you won't find that advice in= the > current documentation either, AFAICT. ??? The variable and its effect are clearly documented in both the user manual and the ELisp manual. Which is more than I can say for the other new features introduced in Emacs 24, because documentation is generally finalized only during the pretest. What else besides documentation of the variable is needed to make it clear to users how to turn a feature off? > As it happens, Drew did complain. His complaint is not helpful, because he explicitly declined to provide any details about the situation where bidi slowed down Emacs for him. > Also, this is not (only) about making `bidi-display-reordering' a c= ustom > variable. It is about releasing Emacs 24 with still-not-widely-test= ed > bidi support, which quite possibly adds zero value for most users[1= ], > but does add significant problems at least in some (possibly as yet > unknown) circumstances. We are not releasing Emacs 24.1 yet. We didn't yet enter the pretest= , and it's anyone's guess when the pretest will be over. Pretest is th= e time when such radical new features are supposed to be tested and any problems in them fixed before Emacs 24.1 hits the street. We had an even more radical change in the display engine when Emacs 21.1 was developed; the pretest took more than a year back then.