From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#27505: acknowledged by developer (Re: bug#27505: LC_CTYPE affects tutorial language) Date: Sat, 05 Aug 2017 13:15:39 +0300 Message-ID: <83zibeuxpw.fsf@gnu.org> References: <871soq7pyr.fsf@users.sourceforge.net> <44eb186d-db67-3e93-31cd-8260f5df7781@lausen.nl> <83k22iwl13.fsf@gnu.org> <837eyiweyh.fsf@gnu.org> <7cdd7d3f-f704-1180-f95b-e243e4c2a658@lausen.nl> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1501928176 1850 195.159.176.226 (5 Aug 2017 10:16:16 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2017 10:16:16 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 27505@debbugs.gnu.org To: Leonard Lausen Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Aug 05 12:16:10 2017 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ddw7s-0008Tm-0q for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 05 Aug 2017 12:16:08 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:56106 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ddw7x-0000Jb-V3 for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 05 Aug 2017 06:16:13 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:39525) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ddw7r-0000JO-4S for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 05 Aug 2017 06:16:08 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ddw7m-0003Zb-GZ for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 05 Aug 2017 06:16:07 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.43]:39857) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ddw7m-0003ZX-EG for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 05 Aug 2017 06:16:02 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ddw7m-0006st-86 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 05 Aug 2017 06:16:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 05 Aug 2017 10:16:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 27505 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 27505-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B27505.150192816126454 (code B ref 27505); Sat, 05 Aug 2017 10:16:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 27505) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Aug 2017 10:16:01 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42534 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ddw7k-0006sc-VU for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 05 Aug 2017 06:16:01 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:48432) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ddw7j-0006sO-3T for 27505@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 05 Aug 2017 06:15:59 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ddw7Z-0003RM-EY for 27505@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 05 Aug 2017 06:15:54 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:45937) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ddw7Z-0003RD-6A; Sat, 05 Aug 2017 06:15:49 -0400 Original-Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:1599 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1ddw7Y-0000gM-HJ; Sat, 05 Aug 2017 06:15:48 -0400 In-reply-to: <7cdd7d3f-f704-1180-f95b-e243e4c2a658@lausen.nl> (message from Leonard Lausen on Sat, 5 Aug 2017 18:52:38 +0900) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 208.118.235.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:135409 Archived-At: > Cc: 27505@debbugs.gnu.org > From: Leonard Lausen > Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2017 18:52:38 +0900 > > > But I don't see why that would be a problem for you: if you don't want > > that Emacs language environment be Chinese when you use XIM, you > > should be able to invoke set-language-environment inside Emacs after > > starting it, to set the language environment to something other than > > Chinese. Does that work for you? > > That is a good workaround. I created this bug report, as I would expect > this as default behavior though. The default behavior is very unlikely to change, sorry. It took us many years to arrive at the current behavior, so changing that for a single use case, even if it's deemed important, makes little sense to me. > > See the "interpretation of sequences of bytes of text data as > > characters" parts: that's what causes Emacs to use LC_CTYPE to setup > > the language environment. So we do follow Posix, AFAIU > > Hm, as long as LANG and LC_CTYPE both are UTF-8 locales, the > interpretation of bytes would be the same. Yes, but LANG is the fallback in case LC_* are not defined, so I don't think how LANG set to a different language than LC_CTYPE could be according to Posix. > In principle the interface > language is independent from the interpretation of bytes right? One > could just parse the first part of LANG (i.e. "en_EN") do decide the > display language but follow LC_CTYPE for the interpretation of bytes. > This seems also to be what the majority of applications are doing, given > that I set LC_CTYPE to Chinese system wide, but only emacs (and Dropbox) > are changing their interface language (more specifically the tutorial > language). In Emacs, "display language" is just one aspect of the multi-lingual environment. So I'm afraid if the default is not to your liking, you will have to customize the individual aspects of the language environment separately, as you see fit. That's why those variables exist in the first place -- to tailor the Emacs operation to even rare and non-typical use cases.