From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#20623: XML and HTML files with encoding/charset="utf-8" declaration loose BOM; Coding system is reset from utf-8-with-signature to utf-8 on save Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2018 13:45:17 +0300 Message-ID: <83zhxtkwqq.fsf@gnu.org> References: <555E2912.7060509@gmx.net> <83iobl67ao.fsf@gnu.org> <555E44EB.6070604@gmx.net> <83egm95boc.fsf@gnu.org> <555F2D3C.6090608@gmx.net> <8660oxdyxy.fsf@realize.ch> <457eu2h1sk.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <20180808094748.GA26509@zira.vinc17.org> <83a7ptmfgs.fsf@gnu.org> <20180811101341.GA4800@zira.vinc17.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1533984250 5116 195.159.176.226 (11 Aug 2018 10:44:10 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2018 10:44:10 +0000 (UTC) Cc: a.s@realize.ch, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, 20623@debbugs.gnu.org, sledergerber@gmx.net To: Vincent Lefevre Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Aug 11 12:44:06 2018 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1foRNN-0001DT-SL for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 11 Aug 2018 12:44:05 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:59658 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1foRPU-0004HF-9i for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 11 Aug 2018 06:46:16 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:40554) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1foRPK-0004Gy-Rd for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 11 Aug 2018 06:46:07 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1foRPG-00039H-RR for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 11 Aug 2018 06:46:06 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.43]:42818) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1foRPG-000391-Me for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 11 Aug 2018 06:46:02 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1foRPG-0001oS-DM for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 11 Aug 2018 06:46:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2018 10:46:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 20623 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 20623-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B20623.15339843276923 (code B ref 20623); Sat, 11 Aug 2018 10:46:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 20623) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Aug 2018 10:45:27 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47836 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1foROh-0001nb-Fz for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 11 Aug 2018 06:45:27 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:49447) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1foROg-0001nP-7C for 20623@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 11 Aug 2018 06:45:26 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1foROW-0002VX-EG for 20623@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 11 Aug 2018 06:45:20 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:37056) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1foROW-0002VP-BS; Sat, 11 Aug 2018 06:45:16 -0400 Original-Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=4028 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1foROV-0003bc-80; Sat, 11 Aug 2018 06:45:15 -0400 In-reply-to: <20180811101341.GA4800@zira.vinc17.org> (message from Vincent Lefevre on Sat, 11 Aug 2018 12:13:41 +0200) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 208.118.235.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:149434 Archived-At: > Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2018 12:13:41 +0200 > From: Vincent Lefevre > Cc: monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, rgm@gnu.org, sledergerber@gmx.net, > a.s@realize.ch, 20623@debbugs.gnu.org > > On 2018-08-11 12:15:31 +0300, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > In this case, I cannot but express my extreme surprise to see such a > > minor issue described as "grave". The alleged data loss is minor, if > > it exists at all (the BOM is not data important for the user, > > You're completely wrong. The presence of BOM or not is very important > for some applications, such as Firefox (not to determine the charset, > but the MIME type of local files). Please provide the details, including the use case, if possible. I'm still in the dark regarding the importance of the BOM in UTF-8 encoded HTML stuff. > It can be repaired, but the problems are the user doesn't know > what's going on and this breaks things. I agree about the user not knowing, but that doesn't yet qualify as "data loss", which has an widely accepted meaning. > If some package removed the execute permission of some utility in > /bin, this would also be a grave bug, though it can easily been > repaired. Well, I disagree about the "grave" part, because that means the package is unusable, causes data loss, or introduces a security hole allowing access to the user account. None of that is true in the case in point.