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From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>
To: Alan Third <alan@idiocy.org>
Cc: 35389@debbugs.gnu.org, rpluim@gmail.com, npostavs@gmail.com
Subject: bug#35389: 27.0.50; [PATCH] Emacs on macOS sets mouse-wheel variables directly
Date: Sun, 12 May 2019 07:58:50 +0300	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <83zhnsb75h.fsf@gnu.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20190511225021.GA82537@breton.holly.idiocy.org> (message from Alan Third on Sat, 11 May 2019 23:50:21 +0100)

> Date: Sat, 11 May 2019 23:50:21 +0100
> From: Alan Third <alan@idiocy.org>
> Cc: Robert Pluim <rpluim@gmail.com>, 35389@debbugs.gnu.org,
> 	npostavs@gmail.com
> 
> > > (5 ((shift) . 1) ((control) . nil)))
> > > 
> > > to
> > > 
> > > (1 ((shift) . 5) ((control)))
> > 
> > What is the logic behind the value proposed for macOS 10.7, though?
> > It sounds like Shift will _increase_ the scrolling amount instead of
> > decreasing it in the default value?  What is the reason for such
> > reversal?
> 
> I can’t recall... I think it was just something somebody provided as
> an option and nobody disagreed.
> 
> Some of the previous discussion is available here:
> 
> http://emacs.1067599.n8.nabble.com/Smoother-macOS-touchpad-scrolling-td435666.html

I don't see the above discrepancy discussed anywhere, nor any
justification for switching Shift from causing slower scrolling to
causing faster scrolling.  Did I miss something?

What I see is 2 kinds of arguments:

  . Acceleration applied by Emacs makes scrolling too fast because
    macOS itself accelerates by default

  . The default amount of scrolling -- 5 -- is too large for macOS
    (not sure why -- is that also due to macOS defaults?)

The first of these could be handled by turning acceleration off on
macOS 10.7 by default.  Maybe the same with the latter.  Although I
don't understand why the system's default scrolling should matter,
because AFAIK Emacs scrolls by its own commands, it doesn't use the
system for that.

Why Shift should _accelerate_ on macOS was never discussed, in any of
the linked discussions or the links inside them (stack-overflow etc.)

I understand now that this ship has sailed with Emacs 26, which I
regret, because I think it was a serious mistake to make at least part
of those changes.  Maybe we should try fixing that in future versions.

There's also the issue with trackball that differs from a real mouse
wheel.  I don't think I understand why it's an Emacs problem; do other
apps somehow distinguish between the trackball and the mouse and
produce a different behavior?  If so, why cannot Emacs distinguish
between them?

There was also a question in the 2017 discussion regarding how to know
we are near the top or bottom of the buffer.  is that still an issue?
Maybe I don't understand the problem, because the answer is trivial,
we have 2 macros that provide the limits of the buffer's accessible
portion, and another macro that provides the value of point.  If you
need the position of the window-start, that is also readily available.

Bottom line, I'd like to change Shift back to cause slow-down of the
scrolling, as on other platforms.  Maybe also change the default
itself back, and just make the acceleration off on macOS 10.7.





  reply	other threads:[~2019-05-12  4:58 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 33+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2019-04-23  9:47 bug#35389: 27.0.50; [PATCH] Emacs on macOS sets mouse-wheel variables directly Robert Pluim
2019-04-23 11:17 ` Noam Postavsky
2019-04-23 11:38   ` Robert Pluim
2019-05-10 15:29     ` Robert Pluim
2019-05-10 19:53       ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-05-10 21:25         ` Alan Third
2019-05-11  6:12           ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-05-11  9:54             ` Robert Pluim
2019-05-11 10:58               ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-05-11 22:50                 ` Alan Third
2019-05-12  4:58                   ` Eli Zaretskii [this message]
2019-05-12 11:05                     ` Alan Third
2019-05-12 14:36                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-05-19 12:41                         ` Alan Third
2019-05-12 23:29                       ` Tak Kunihiro
2019-05-13 14:26                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-05-16  9:00                           ` Tak Kunihiro
2019-05-16 13:55                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-05-16 23:24                               ` Tak Kunihiro
2019-05-17  5:39                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-05-18  8:50                                   ` Tak Kunihiro
2019-05-18  9:16                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-05-19 12:32                                       ` Alan Third
2019-05-22  6:22                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-05-23  4:24                                           ` Tak Kunihiro
2019-05-23  4:55                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-06-06  2:21                                           ` Tak Kunihiro
2019-06-07 18:31                                             ` Alan Third
2020-08-10 11:32                                               ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2020-08-10 13:04                                                 ` Robert Pluim
2020-08-10 13:19                                                   ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2019-05-11 22:53               ` Alan Third
2019-05-11 23:06             ` Alan Third

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