From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#46472: Make lisp/mail/uce.el obsolete Date: Sat, 06 Mar 2021 19:25:26 +0200 Message-ID: <83zgzgurcp.fsf@gnu.org> References: <83im6we6v8.fsf@gnu.org> <83mtw8cbku.fsf@gnu.org> <1br1ku3eji.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <83sg5azkr3.fsf@gnu.org> Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="27678"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: rgm@gnu.org, 46472@debbugs.gnu.org To: Stefan Kangas Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Mar 06 18:27:14 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lIahu-00075D-8s for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 06 Mar 2021 18:27:14 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:42024 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lIaht-0002cf-CG for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 06 Mar 2021 12:27:13 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:49084) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lIahi-0002cQ-Gb for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 06 Mar 2021 12:27:02 -0500 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]:54882) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lIahi-0007N2-8C for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 06 Mar 2021 12:27:02 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lIahi-0000yB-4L for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 06 Mar 2021 12:27:02 -0500 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 06 Mar 2021 17:27:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 46472 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs Original-Received: via spool by 46472-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B46472.16150515623660 (code B ref 46472); Sat, 06 Mar 2021 17:27:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 46472) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Mar 2021 17:26:02 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38195 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lIaga-0000wW-BZ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 06 Mar 2021 12:26:02 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:59362) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lIagY-0000wJ-AD for 46472@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 06 Mar 2021 12:25:50 -0500 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:42506) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lIagS-0006vL-Np; Sat, 06 Mar 2021 12:25:44 -0500 Original-Received: from 84.94.185.95.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.95]:3307 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1lIagN-0003kY-NK; Sat, 06 Mar 2021 12:25:40 -0500 In-Reply-To: (message from Stefan Kangas on Sat, 6 Mar 2021 11:14:13 -0600) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:201647 Archived-At: > From: Stefan Kangas > Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2021 11:14:13 -0600 > Cc: 46472@debbugs.gnu.org > > Eli Zaretskii writes: > > > I don't see how our views on what is and isn't appropriate response to > > spam should be mandatory for the few users who may disagree. > > Moving this to obsolete/ does not make it mandatory for anyone to do > anything. It is not within our power to do that; one of the freedoms > granted by the GPL is to run the program for any purpose. Moving it to obsolete/ will make using it an annoyance. If I were one of those who for some reason use this package, I'd resent that move. What I resent when done to myself I prefer we don't do to others. > AFAIK, nowhere in the GPL, the GNU Manifesto etc. does it say that it is > contrary to the spirit of free software to make useless features > obsolete. That this feature is obsolete is one opinion. Even if that opinion is predominant, it doesn't mean different opinions aren't possible, let alone legitimate. It is IMO condescending to force our views on others. > > Is there any other, more modern method we support to respond to spam? > > Yes, I listed some of them in my previous reply. And I already said most of the above in my previous replies. But we are still arguing, for some reason that evades me. Bottom line: I find obsolescence to be inappropriate for this kind of situations. If we want to warn users against responding to spam, we should find a different way of doing that. Like we do with lib-src/movemail, for example. (For some reason, ISTR I already said that as well.)