From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#62720: 29.0.60; Not easy at all to upgrade :core packages like Eglot Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2023 21:49:14 +0300 Message-ID: <83zg7ae1ud.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87a5zj2vfo.fsf@gmail.com> <831qkp6o0i.fsf@gnu.org> <83wn2h5825.fsf@gnu.org> <87wn2gkhzr.fsf@posteo.net> <83cz485oxi.fsf@gnu.org> <87leiwdyff.fsf@posteo.net> <834jpk5hih.fsf@gnu.org> <871qkom3fj.fsf@posteo.net> <83mt3b4yfc.fsf@gnu.org> <87edonlsxi.fsf@posteo.net> <83jzyf4vzb.fsf@gnu.org> <871qknllkj.fsf@posteo.net> <83fs934pjf.fsf@gnu.org> <87wn2fk47y.fsf@posteo.net> <83sfd2g2ek.fsf@gnu.org> <875y9yfxrr.fsf@gmail.com> <87y1muefks.fsf@gmail.com> <835y9yfj68.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="16813"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: larsi@gnus.org, 62720@debbugs.gnu.org, rpluim@gmail.com, philipk@posteo.net, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca To: =?UTF-8?Q?Jo=C3=A3o_?= =?UTF-8?Q?T=C3=A1vora?= Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Apr 14 20:50:31 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1pnOVB-0004AK-Ee for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; 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Original-Received: from [87.69.77.57] (helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pnOU0-0005B7-5e; Fri, 14 Apr 2023 14:49:16 -0400 In-Reply-To: (message from =?UTF-8?Q?Jo=C3=A3o_?= =?UTF-8?Q?T=C3=A1vora?= on Fri, 14 Apr 2023 19:32:40 +0100) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:259959 Archived-At: > From: João Távora > Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2023 19:32:40 +0100 > Cc: monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, rpluim@gmail.com, 62720@debbugs.gnu.org, > larsi@gnus.org, philipk@posteo.net > > On Fri, Apr 14, 2023 at 6:49 PM Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > > when you say "compatibility", you seem to have only one its aspect in > > mind: that of Eglot. But that is not the only aspect of the previous > > behavior, and I, at least, must consider those other aspects as well. > > You seem to be worried about "everyone else" typing, say, M-x package-install > RET seq RET and getting an updated 'seq' as a result. That, too. But also everything else. Any incompatible change of behavior can potentially break someone's workflow. > OK, but who does this and why, in your opinion? And who has > `(package-install seq)` in their config and why? And won't they get > the same updated 'seq' "accidentally" if they install anything else > that depends on newer seq, which is likely a lot of non-core > packages and likely to grow? I don't know. But we did have core packages that were also on ELPA before Emacs 29, and people did get along with that. So much so that I don't recall any complaints about this, definitely not complaints that claimed package.el is as badly broken as you seem to represent. > But even if these people and use cases did exist, you're still > plainly misrepresenting my position by writing that I'm "calling > for breaking" them. I said "in effect calling for breaking them". You need to realize this might be the outcome of what you are requesting, even if your intentions are benign. > I even proposed making a simple whitelist of packages that have > migrated from outside core to core. And I've proposed confirmation > prompts for the interactive calls. And others have proposed > blacklists. These things are trivial to implement in Elisp. They are not trivial enough to be considered for emacs-29. On master, sure, feel free to install such changes, if the others agree.