* bug#9219: 24.0.50; bidi switches to R-to-L when I don't want it to
@ 2011-08-01 19:06 Florian Beck
2011-08-01 19:16 ` Eli Zaretskii
0 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread
From: Florian Beck @ 2011-08-01 19:06 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: 9219
Occasinally I use א (x5d0) at the beginning of a paragraph (as a marker
for some quite but not completly unrelated thought, cf. Agamben).
This makes emacs display the buffer aligned to the right (correctly, as
for the docstring of `bidi-paragraph-direction'), which is not what I want.
There are various workarounds (setting above variable, disabling bidi
reordering, using ℵ (ALEF SYMBOL x2135) or giving up that marking
scheme), but there should be a way to indicate the direction of a
specific paragraph, shouldn't there?
In GNU Emacs 24.0.50.2 (x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu, X toolkit)
of 2011-07-30 on flo-laptop
Windowing system distributor `The X.Org Foundation', version 11.0.11001000
configured using `configure '--with-x-toolkit=lucid' 'CFLAGS=-march=core2 -msse2 -mssse3 -mcx16 -mfpmath=sse -O2 -pipe''
Important settings:
value of $LC_ALL: nil
value of $LC_COLLATE: nil
value of $LC_CTYPE: nil
value of $LC_MESSAGES: nil
value of $LC_MONETARY: nil
value of $LC_NUMERIC: nil
value of $LC_TIME: nil
value of $LANG: en_US.UTF-8
value of $XMODIFIERS: nil
locale-coding-system: utf-8-unix
default enable-multibyte-characters: t
Major mode: Help
Minor modes in effect:
diff-auto-refine-mode: t
show-paren-mode: t
shell-dirtrack-mode: t
yas/global-mode: t
tooltip-mode: t
mouse-wheel-mode: t
menu-bar-mode: 0
file-name-shadow-mode: t
global-font-lock-mode: t
font-lock-mode: t
blink-cursor-mode: t
auto-composition-mode: t
auto-encryption-mode: t
auto-compression-mode: t
line-number-mode: t
view-mode: t
Recent input:
<down> <next> <next> <next> <next> <next> <next> <next>
<next> <next> <next> <next> <next> <next> <next> <prior>
<prior> <next> <next> <prior> <prior> <prior> <prior>
<prior> <prior> <prior> <prior> <prior> <prior> <prior>
<prior> <prior> <next> <next> <prior> <prior> <prior>
<prior> C-c C-c y <switch-frame> q g <return> <down>
<return> SPC n SPC n <up> <up> <up> <up> <up> <return>
n q <up> <up> <up> <return> <return> n SPC n SPC SPC
n n q <return> <return> SPC n C-g <up> <up> <up> <up>
<return> <down> <return> SPC <down> <return> n q l
g <down> c y <up> <up> <up> <return> <return> q <up>
<up> <return> c y l <switch-frame> C-o C-x b N o p
<tab> <backspace> <tab> 2 <tab> <return> <C-end> <return>
C-x 8 <return> a l e p <tab> <tab> <C-backspace> *
a l e <tab> P <tab> <tab> <right> <backspace> <backspace>
<end> <home> * C-k a l e <tab> f <tab> <down-mouse-1>
<mouse-2> <return> <return> M-x M-p C-g C-x 7 C-x 8
<return> * a l e f <tab> <tab> <tab> <tab> <tab> <down-mouse-1>
<mouse-2> SPC s o m e SPC t h o u g h t <up> <up> SPC
s p <backspace> o m e SPC t h o u g h t C-x s <escape>
: ( s e t q SPC d <backspace> b i d i - d <tab> SPC
t ) <return> <escape> : <up> <end> <left> <backspace>
n i l <return> <down> <down> <up> <up> <up> C-SPC C-SPC
<up> <up> <up> M-w <down> <down> <down> <down> <down>
<down> <end> : SPC C-y C-y C-y <escape> : <up> <return>
<escape> : <up> <up> <return> <escape> : <up> <up>
<return> <up> <up> <up> <up> <up> <up> <up> <up> <up>
C-x = C-o M-x r e p o r t SPC e m <tab> <return>
Recent messages:
nil
Mark set
Mark activated
Mark set [3 times]
nil
t
Saving file /home/flo/DATA/Org/Notizen-2011.org...
Wrote /home/flo/DATA/Org/Notizen-2011.org
nil
Char: א (1488, #o2720, #x5d0, file ...) point=44746 of 45797 (98%) column=0
Load-path shadows:
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/home/flo/elisp/org-mode/lisp/org-icalendar hides /usr/local/share/emacs/24.0.50/lisp/org/org-icalendar
/home/flo/elisp/org-mode/lisp/org-table hides /usr/local/share/emacs/24.0.50/lisp/org/org-table
/home/flo/elisp/org-mode/lisp/ob-tangle hides /usr/local/share/emacs/24.0.50/lisp/org/ob-tangle
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/home/flo/elisp/org-mode/lisp/org-bbdb hides /usr/local/share/emacs/24.0.50/lisp/org/org-bbdb
/home/flo/elisp/org-mode/lisp/org-docview hides /usr/local/share/emacs/24.0.50/lisp/org/org-docview
/home/flo/elisp/org-mode/lisp/org-mobile hides /usr/local/share/emacs/24.0.50/lisp/org/org-mobile
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/home/flo/elisp/org-mode/lisp/ob-lob hides /usr/local/share/emacs/24.0.50/lisp/org/ob-lob
/home/flo/elisp/org-mode/lisp/ob hides /usr/local/share/emacs/24.0.50/lisp/org/ob
/home/flo/elisp/org-mode/lisp/org-mks hides /usr/local/share/emacs/24.0.50/lisp/org/org-mks
/home/flo/elisp/org-mode/lisp/org-publish hides /usr/local/share/emacs/24.0.50/lisp/org/org-publish
/home/flo/elisp/org-mode/lisp/ob-clojure hides /usr/local/share/emacs/24.0.50/lisp/org/ob-clojure
/home/flo/elisp/org-mode/lisp/org-xoxo hides /usr/local/share/emacs/24.0.50/lisp/org/org-xoxo
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/home/flo/.emacs.d/elpa/erc-5.3/erc-log hides /usr/local/share/emacs/24.0.50/lisp/erc/erc-log
/home/flo/.emacs.d/elpa/erc-5.3/erc-goodies hides /usr/local/share/emacs/24.0.50/lisp/erc/erc-goodies
/home/flo/.emacs.d/elpa/erc-5.3/erc-join hides /usr/local/share/emacs/24.0.50/lisp/erc/erc-join
/home/flo/.emacs.d/elpa/erc-5.3/erc-imenu hides /usr/local/share/emacs/24.0.50/lisp/erc/erc-imenu
/home/flo/.emacs.d/elpa/emms-3.0/tq hides /usr/local/share/emacs/24.0.50/lisp/emacs-lisp/tq
/home/flo/.emacs.d/elpa/erc-5.3/erc-hecomplete hides /usr/local/share/emacs/24.0.50/lisp/obsolete/erc-hecomplete
Features:
(iso-transl shadow emacsbug mailalias debug multi-isearch url-dav rect
url-http nnagent preview prv-emacs tex-buf font-latex latex tex-style
tex latexenc newcomment thingatpt grep face-remap bookmark w3-forms
w3-style w3-hot url-file url-dired w3-toolbar w3-emacs w3-props url-auth
w3 w3-menu url-queue url-news url-irc url-gw w3-emulate w3-auto w3-parse
w3-fast-parse w3-display w3-mouse w3-imap url-handlers w3-widget w3-vars
w3-keymap w3-cus css font devices ange-ftp w3-cfg w3-compat tabify
mule-util flow-fill diff-mode jka-compr hippie-exp vc-git find-func
help-mode qp gnus-html browse-url url-cache ansi-color gnus-cite
mail-extr gnus-async gnus-bcklg gnus-ml gnus-topic utf-7 utf7 rfc2104
imap pop3 nndraft nnmh nnml nnfolder parse-time rot13 disp-table netrc
gnutls network-stream starttls tls gnus-agent gnus-srvr gnus-score
score-mode nnvirtual nntp gnus-cache smtpmail sendmail spam spam-stat
bbdb-com bbdb timezone gnus-uu yenc gnus-msg gnus-art mm-uu mml2015
mm-view mml-smime smime nnir gnus-sum gnus-group gnus-undo dig
gnus-propfont nnrss mm-url nnmail mail-source nnoo gnus-start gnus-spec
gnus-int gnus-range gnus-win gnus gnus-ems view cal-iso cdlatex texmathp
image-file org-wl org-w3m org-vm org-rmail org-mhe org-mew org-irc
org-jsinfo org-infojs org-html org-info org-gnus org-docview org-bibtex
bibtex org-bbdb server session saveplace paren spell-number color-insert
overrides unicode-test my-font-settings fb-byte-compile zettelkasten
window-config outline-bar heisig logik robin refile fb-bibtex
my-skeletons my-emacs-extras re-builder message rfc822 mml mml-sec
mm-decode mm-bodies mm-encode mail-parse rfc2231 rfc2047 rfc2045
ietf-drums mailabbrev gmm-utils mailheader muse-bulletins wesnoth-fb
emms-fb emms-volume emms-volume-amixer emms-tag-editor emms-i18n
emms-mark emms-history emms-bookmarks emms-last-played emms-stream-info
emms-metaplaylist-mode emms-lastfm emms-url url url-proxy url-privacy
url-expand url-methods url-history url-cookie url-util url-parse
auth-source eieio password-cache url-vars mailcap emms-browser sort
emms-playlist-sort emms-score emms-player-xine emms-player-mpd tq
emms-playing-time emms-lyrics emms-streams emms-mode-line emms-cache
emms-info-ogginfo emms-info-mp3info emms-info later-do
emms-playlist-mode emms-player-mplayer emms-player-simple
emms-source-playlist emms-source-file emms-setup emms emms-compat
calendar-fb cal-china lunar solar cal-dst cal-bahai cal-islam cal-hebrew
holidays hol-loaddefs appt diary-lib diary-loaddefs regexp-fb
typopunct-fb typopunct changelog-fb dired-fb dired file-props
format-spec crm keybindings cus-edit cus-start cus-load muse-publish
muse-project muse-protocols muse-regexps wid-edit muse muse-nested-tags
muse-mode pomodoro dictem-fb dictem timeclock uniquify command-frequency
elk-test two-mode-mode yank-match nnheader mm-util mail-prsvr mail-utils
gnus-util xml aspell-fb htmlize haskell-fb inf-haskell haskell-mode pp
epa-file epa derived epg epg-config cfdg-mode generic org-fb
org-datetree org-id org-timer org-latex org-export-latex org-beamer
org-exp ob-exp org-exp-blocks org-agenda footnote org-capture org-mks
org-archive org-install ob-sqlite ob-sh shell ob-ruby ob-python
ob-gnuplot ob-latex ob-asymptote ob-dot ob-ditaa ob-R org byte-opt
warnings ob-emacs-lisp ob-tangle ob-ref ob-lob ob-table org-footnote
org-src ob-comint ob-keys ob ob-eval org-pcomplete pcomplete org-list
org-faces org-compat org-entities org-macs noutline outline easy-mmode
cal-menu calendar cal-loaddefs settings-fb avoid package-fb
auctex-autoloads tex-site auto-complete-autoloads clojure-mode-autoloads
css-mode-autoloads emms-autoloads erc-autoloads htmlize-autoloads
kill-ring-search-autoloads lambdacalc-autoloads lua-mode-autoloads
perspective-autoloads rainbow-mode-autoloads slime-repl-autoloads
slime-autoloads w3-autoloads info yasnippet-bundle-autoloads
yasnippet-bundle dropdown-list advice help-fns advice-preload yasnippet
edmacro kmacro easymenu assoc cl package tabulated-list compile comint
regexp-opt ring bytecomp byte-compile cconv macroexp time-date tooltip
ediff-hook vc-hooks lisp-float-type mwheel x-win x-dnd tool-bar dnd
fontset image fringe lisp-mode register page menu-bar rfn-eshadow timer
select scroll-bar mouse jit-lock font-lock syntax facemenu font-core
frame cham georgian utf-8-lang misc-lang vietnamese tibetan thai
tai-viet lao korean japanese hebrew greek romanian slovak czech european
ethiopic indian cyrillic chinese case-table epa-hook jka-cmpr-hook help
simple abbrev minibuffer loaddefs button faces cus-face files
text-properties overlay sha1 md5 base64 format env code-pages mule
custom widget hashtable-print-readable backquote make-network-process
dbusbind dynamic-setting system-font-setting font-render-setting
x-toolkit x multi-tty emacs)
--
Viele Grüße,
Florian Beck
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* bug#9219: 24.0.50; bidi switches to R-to-L when I don't want it to
2011-08-01 19:06 bug#9219: 24.0.50; bidi switches to R-to-L when I don't want it to Florian Beck
@ 2011-08-01 19:16 ` Eli Zaretskii
2011-08-01 19:59 ` Florian Beck
0 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread
From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2011-08-01 19:16 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Florian Beck; +Cc: 9219
> From: Florian Beck <abstraktion@t-online.de>
> Date: Mon, 01 Aug 2011 21:06:36 +0200
>
> Occasinally I use א (x5d0) at the beginning of a paragraph (as a marker
> for some quite but not completly unrelated thought, cf. Agamben).
>
> This makes emacs display the buffer aligned to the right (correctly, as
> for the docstring of `bidi-paragraph-direction'), which is not what I want.
What _do_ you want?
> There are various workarounds (setting above variable, disabling bidi
> reordering, using ℵ (ALEF SYMBOL x2135) or giving up that marking
> scheme)
There's one other method: Precede the א with a special character LRM
(C-x 8 RET LEFT-TO-RIGHT MARK RET). This will make the paragraph
left-to-right, but only that one paragraph. It's in the manual. Does
this do what you want, by any chance?
> but there should be a way to indicate the direction of a specific
> paragraph, shouldn't there?
If by "indicate" you mean tell Emacs that this single paragraph has a
certain direction, then using LRM resp RLM is that way.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* bug#9219: 24.0.50; bidi switches to R-to-L when I don't want it to
2011-08-01 19:16 ` Eli Zaretskii
@ 2011-08-01 19:59 ` Florian Beck
2011-08-01 20:17 ` Eli Zaretskii
0 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread
From: Florian Beck @ 2011-08-01 19:59 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: 9219, Florian Beck
Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
>> From: Florian Beck <abstraktion@t-online.de>
>> Date: Mon, 01 Aug 2011 21:06:36 +0200
>>
>> Occasinally I use א (x5d0) at the beginning of a paragraph (as a marker
>> for some quite but not completly unrelated thought, cf. Agamben).
>>
>> This makes emacs display the buffer aligned to the right (correctly, as
>> for the docstring of `bidi-paragraph-direction'), which is not what I want.
>
> What _do_ you want?
As in a left-to-right paragraph. A more common example would be someone
writing an english article and starting not only a sentence but a
paragraph with a hebrew (or arabic or thaana) term. Rare? Sure, but
perfectly reasonably.
>> There are various workarounds (setting above variable, disabling bidi
>> reordering, using ℵ (ALEF SYMBOL x2135) or giving up that marking
>> scheme)
>
> There's one other method: Precede the א with a special character LRM
> (C-x 8 RET LEFT-TO-RIGHT MARK RET). This will make the paragraph
> left-to-right, but only that one paragraph. It's in the manual. Does
> this do what you want, by any chance?
This works, thanks.
BTW, I'm reporting my experience with running bidi enabled emacs on my
text files. I found the section in the manual easily enough. But if I
wouldn't read emacs-devel, I'd have no idea what was going on.
>
>> but there should be a way to indicate the direction of a specific
>> paragraph, shouldn't there?
>
> If by "indicate" you mean tell Emacs that this single paragraph has a
> certain direction, then using LRM resp RLM is that way.
Yes. But there is one more thing: Let A be a alef, M the marker and | the cursor.
Say I have a paragraph displayed as
|A blah blah
Now I insert the left-to-right mark. This results in:
AM blah blah
which seems … weird. The marker is not part of the word, so it should be
to the left in l-to-r paragraphs.
--
Florian Beck
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* bug#9219: 24.0.50; bidi switches to R-to-L when I don't want it to
2011-08-01 19:59 ` Florian Beck
@ 2011-08-01 20:17 ` Eli Zaretskii
2011-08-01 21:09 ` Florian Beck
0 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread
From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2011-08-01 20:17 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Florian Beck; +Cc: 9219
> From: Florian Beck <abstraktion@t-online.de>
> Cc: Florian Beck <abstraktion@t-online.de>, 9219@debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Mon, 01 Aug 2011 21:59:50 +0200
>
> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
>
> >> From: Florian Beck <abstraktion@t-online.de>
> >> Date: Mon, 01 Aug 2011 21:06:36 +0200
> >>
> >> Occasinally I use א (x5d0) at the beginning of a paragraph (as a marker
> >> for some quite but not completly unrelated thought, cf. Agamben).
> >>
> >> This makes emacs display the buffer aligned to the right (correctly, as
> >> for the docstring of `bidi-paragraph-direction'), which is not what I want.
> >
> > What _do_ you want?
>
> As in a left-to-right paragraph. A more common example would be someone
> writing an english article and starting not only a sentence but a
> paragraph with a hebrew (or arabic or thaana) term. Rare? Sure, but
> perfectly reasonably.
Then why isn't bidi-paragraph-direction the solution? It can be put
in file-local variables.
> BTW, I'm reporting my experience with running bidi enabled emacs on my
> text files. I found the section in the manual easily enough. But if I
> wouldn't read emacs-devel, I'd have no idea what was going on.
I'm not sure I understand. If you are saying that the manual could
use some improvement, please suggest what else should be told there.
If you mean something else, please tell what is it.
> Say I have a paragraph displayed as
>
> |A blah blah
>
> Now I insert the left-to-right mark. This results in:
>
> AM blah blah
Sorry, I don't understand the recipe. Without the LRM, that paragraph
should have been displayed flushed to the right margin, like this:
bla bla A
Is that your original display? If so, where's the cursor when you
insert the LRM: to the left of A or to the right?
> which seems … weird.
I cannot reproduce this, but what am I missing?
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* bug#9219: 24.0.50; bidi switches to R-to-L when I don't want it to
2011-08-01 20:17 ` Eli Zaretskii
@ 2011-08-01 21:09 ` Florian Beck
2011-08-02 2:57 ` Eli Zaretskii
0 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread
From: Florian Beck @ 2011-08-01 21:09 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: 9219, Florian Beck
Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
>> Say I have a paragraph displayed as
>>
>> |A blah blah
>>
>> Now I insert the left-to-right mark. This results in:
>>
>> AM blah blah
>
> Sorry, I don't understand the recipe. Without the LRM, that paragraph
> should have been displayed flushed to the right margin, like this:
>
> bla bla A
>
> Is that your original display?
Yes, sorry.
> If so, where's the cursor when you
> insert the LRM: to the left of A or to the right?
Admittedly to the right, because I use `beginning-of-visual-line' to
get to what I interpret as the beginning of the paragraph. So its
blah blah A|
and I get
A|M blah blah
I'd expect the marker to come first.
--
Florian Beck
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* bug#9219: 24.0.50; bidi switches to R-to-L when I don't want it to
2011-08-01 21:09 ` Florian Beck
@ 2011-08-02 2:57 ` Eli Zaretskii
2011-08-03 18:50 ` Florian Beck
0 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread
From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2011-08-02 2:57 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Florian Beck; +Cc: 9219, abstraktion
> From: Florian Beck <abstraktion@t-online.de>
> Cc: Florian Beck <abstraktion@t-online.de>, 9219@debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Mon, 01 Aug 2011 23:09:18 +0200
>
> > bla bla A
> >
> > Is that your original display?
>
> Yes, sorry.
>
> > If so, where's the cursor when you
> > insert the LRM: to the left of A or to the right?
>
> Admittedly to the right, because I use `beginning-of-visual-line' to
> get to what I interpret as the beginning of the paragraph. So its
>
> blah blah A|
>
> and I get
>
> A|M blah blah
>
> I'd expect the marker to come first.
I still cannot reproduce this: I get the LRM character displayed
_before_ A. Something else is missing in your description.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* bug#9219: 24.0.50; bidi switches to R-to-L when I don't want it to
2011-08-02 2:57 ` Eli Zaretskii
@ 2011-08-03 18:50 ` Florian Beck
2011-08-03 19:39 ` Eli Zaretskii
0 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread
From: Florian Beck @ 2011-08-03 18:50 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: 9219, Florian Beck
Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
>> Admittedly to the right, because I use `beginning-of-visual-line' to
>> get to what I interpret as the beginning of the paragraph. So its
>>
>> blah blah A|
>>
>> and I get
>>
>> A|M blah blah
>>
>> I'd expect the marker to come first.
>
> I still cannot reproduce this: I get the LRM character displayed
> _before_ A. Something else is missing in your description.
Took me a while to find it myself: visual-line-mode
Switch it on and add "abcd " until you have a couple of lines, go to the
first character.
(In *scratch*:
M-x erase buffer
y
M-x text-mode
M-x visual-line-mode
[create text]
)
Displays like this (A is the alef, M the marker):
|abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd
abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd
abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd
abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd
C-x 8 <ret> HEBREW LETTER ALEF <ret>
abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcdA
abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd
abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd
|abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd
<up>
abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd a|bcd abcd abcdA
abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd
abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd
abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd
Now position the cursor like this:
abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcdA
abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd ab|cd
abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd
abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd
<up>
M-x (beginning-of-visual-line)
C-x 8 <ret> LEFT-TO-RIGHT MARK <ret>
And now I have:
A|Mabcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd
abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd
abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd
abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd
--
Florian Beck
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* bug#9219: 24.0.50; bidi switches to R-to-L when I don't want it to
2011-08-03 18:50 ` Florian Beck
@ 2011-08-03 19:39 ` Eli Zaretskii
2011-08-03 20:49 ` Florian Beck
0 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread
From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2011-08-03 19:39 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Florian Beck; +Cc: 9219
> From: Florian Beck <abstraktion@t-online.de>
> Cc: Florian Beck <abstraktion@t-online.de>, 9219@debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Wed, 03 Aug 2011 20:50:00 +0200
>
> abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcdA
> abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd ab|cd
> abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd
> abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd
>
> <up>
> M-x (beginning-of-visual-line)
> C-x 8 <ret> LEFT-TO-RIGHT MARK <ret>
>
> And now I have:
>
> A|Mabcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd
> abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd
> abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd
> abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd
Sorry, still no dice...
Tell me, before you insert the LRM, what does "C-x =" say about the
position of point?
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* bug#9219: 24.0.50; bidi switches to R-to-L when I don't want it to
2011-08-03 19:39 ` Eli Zaretskii
@ 2011-08-03 20:49 ` Florian Beck
2011-08-04 3:02 ` Eli Zaretskii
0 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread
From: Florian Beck @ 2011-08-03 20:49 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: 9219, Florian Beck
Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
>> From: Florian Beck <abstraktion@t-online.de>
>> Cc: Florian Beck <abstraktion@t-online.de>, 9219@debbugs.gnu.org
>> Date: Wed, 03 Aug 2011 20:50:00 +0200
>>
>> abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcdA
>> abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd ab|cd
>> abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd
>> abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd
>>
>> <up>
>> M-x (beginning-of-visual-line)
>> C-x 8 <ret> LEFT-TO-RIGHT MARK <ret>
>>
>> And now I have:
>>
>> A|Mabcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd
>> abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd
>> abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd
>> abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd
>
> Sorry, still no dice...
Sigh. The only thing I omitted was
(setq cursor-type 'bar)
Turns out that is essential.
I did check the recipe, but I didn't restart emacs. Sorry for the
confusion (but the cursor movement in rtl paragraphs confuses me, too).
>
> Tell me, before you insert the LRM, what does "C-x =" say about the
> position of point?
Char: א (1488, #o2720, #x5d0, file ...) point=1 of 391 (0%) column=0
--
Florian Beck
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* bug#9219: 24.0.50; bidi switches to R-to-L when I don't want it to
2011-08-03 20:49 ` Florian Beck
@ 2011-08-04 3:02 ` Eli Zaretskii
2011-08-04 19:04 ` Florian Beck
0 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread
From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2011-08-04 3:02 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Florian Beck; +Cc: 9219
> From: Florian Beck <abstraktion@t-online.de>
> Cc: Florian Beck <abstraktion@t-online.de>, 9219@debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Wed, 03 Aug 2011 22:49:14 +0200
>
> >> A|Mabcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd
> >> abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd
> >> abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd
> >> abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd abcd
> >
> > Sorry, still no dice...
>
> Sigh. The only thing I omitted was
>
> (setq cursor-type 'bar)
A bar cursor is drawn on the right side of R2L characters, but on the
left side of L2R characters. Is this what confused you?
> Turns out that is essential.
>
> I did check the recipe, but I didn't restart emacs. Sorry for the
> confusion
So I think you only _think_ you have the LRM character between the
aleph and the following a, because the bar cursor makes a small
movement when you move from aleph to the a, but is shown between aleph
and a in both positions. In fact, the LRM is to the left of aleph,
you should be able to see that if you modify LRM's entry in
glyphless-char-display-control.
> (but the cursor movement in rtl paragraphs confuses me, too).
It takes some time to get used to. The manual says something vague
about it, like "don't be afraid, it's not a bug" or something.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* bug#9219: 24.0.50; bidi switches to R-to-L when I don't want it to
2011-08-04 3:02 ` Eli Zaretskii
@ 2011-08-04 19:04 ` Florian Beck
2011-08-04 19:26 ` Eli Zaretskii
0 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread
From: Florian Beck @ 2011-08-04 19:04 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: 9219, Florian Beck
Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
>> Sigh. The only thing I omitted was
>>
>> (setq cursor-type 'bar)
>
> A bar cursor is drawn on the right side of R2L characters, but on the
> left side of L2R characters. Is this what confused you?
Yes.
> So I think you only _think_ you have the LRM character between the
> aleph and the following a, because the bar cursor makes a small
> movement when you move from aleph to the a, but is shown between aleph
> and a in both positions.
Yet <right> moves the point from 2 to 3. Ah, I get it: the cursor moves
from the right of the alef to the left of the a. Obvious, when you think
about it…
> In fact, the LRM is to the left of aleph, you should be able to see
> that if you modify LRM's entry in glyphless-char-display-control.
Ok.
>
>> (but the cursor movement in rtl paragraphs confuses me, too).
>
> It takes some time to get used to. The manual says something vague
> about it, like "don't be afraid, it's not a bug" or something.
From the manual and the docstrings I had the impression that <up>,
<down>, <right> and <left> would move visually. That is not the case.
See my example. Also, <right> moves to the left (inside the ltr text
inside the rtl paragraph).
--
Florian Beck
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* bug#9219: 24.0.50; bidi switches to R-to-L when I don't want it to
2011-08-04 19:04 ` Florian Beck
@ 2011-08-04 19:26 ` Eli Zaretskii
0 siblings, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread
From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2011-08-04 19:26 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Florian Beck; +Cc: 9219-done
> From: Florian Beck <abstraktion@t-online.de>
> Cc: Florian Beck <abstraktion@t-online.de>, 9219@debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Thu, 04 Aug 2011 21:04:21 +0200
>
> > So I think you only _think_ you have the LRM character between the
> > aleph and the following a, because the bar cursor makes a small
> > movement when you move from aleph to the a, but is shown between aleph
> > and a in both positions.
>
> Yet <right> moves the point from 2 to 3. Ah, I get it: the cursor moves
> from the right of the alef to the left of the a. Obvious, when you think
> about it…
So this mystery is gone.
> >> (but the cursor movement in rtl paragraphs confuses me, too).
> >
> > It takes some time to get used to. The manual says something vague
> > about it, like "don't be afraid, it's not a bug" or something.
>
> >From the manual and the docstrings I had the impression that <up>,
> <down>, <right> and <left> would move visually.
Well, it actually is not easy to say something more accurate, see the
thread that started here:
https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2011-06/msg00005.html
> Also, <right> moves to the left (inside the ltr text inside the rtl
> paragraph).
Yes, that's how they are meant to move.
I'm closing this bug report.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2011-08-04 19:26 UTC | newest]
Thread overview: 12+ messages (download: mbox.gz follow: Atom feed
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2011-08-01 19:06 bug#9219: 24.0.50; bidi switches to R-to-L when I don't want it to Florian Beck
2011-08-01 19:16 ` Eli Zaretskii
2011-08-01 19:59 ` Florian Beck
2011-08-01 20:17 ` Eli Zaretskii
2011-08-01 21:09 ` Florian Beck
2011-08-02 2:57 ` Eli Zaretskii
2011-08-03 18:50 ` Florian Beck
2011-08-03 19:39 ` Eli Zaretskii
2011-08-03 20:49 ` Florian Beck
2011-08-04 3:02 ` Eli Zaretskii
2011-08-04 19:04 ` Florian Beck
2011-08-04 19:26 ` Eli Zaretskii
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