From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#16691: 24.3.50; emacs_backtrace.txt Date: Sat, 08 Feb 2014 22:55:27 +0200 Message-ID: <83y51luxxc.fsf@gnu.org> References: <83a9e1wg93.fsf@gnu.org> <52F68E36.7070204@gmx.at> <83zjm1uz1g.fsf@gnu.org> <7fiospwd6u.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1391892968 29685 80.91.229.3 (8 Feb 2014 20:56:08 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2014 20:56:08 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 16691@debbugs.gnu.org, lekktu@gmail.com To: Glenn Morris Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Feb 08 21:56:15 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1WCEwh-0000h5-Cf for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 08 Feb 2014 21:56:15 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:47981 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WCEwh-0002IP-2G for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 08 Feb 2014 15:56:15 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:60349) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WCEwZ-0002IG-K6 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 08 Feb 2014 15:56:12 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WCEwU-00021b-FE for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 08 Feb 2014 15:56:07 -0500 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.43]:44242) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WCEwU-00021X-CM for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 08 Feb 2014 15:56:02 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WCEwT-0005KI-O2 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 08 Feb 2014 15:56:01 -0500 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 08 Feb 2014 20:56:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 16691 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: moreinfo Original-Received: via spool by 16691-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B16691.139189295120454 (code B ref 16691); Sat, 08 Feb 2014 20:56:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at 16691) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Feb 2014 20:55:51 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58261 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WCEwI-0005Jq-U5 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 08 Feb 2014 15:55:51 -0500 Original-Received: from mtaout28.012.net.il ([80.179.55.184]:59281) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WCEw7-0005JP-2g for 16691@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 08 Feb 2014 15:55:48 -0500 Original-Received: from conversion-daemon.mtaout28.012.net.il by mtaout28.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0N0P001003EXCR00@mtaout28.012.net.il> for 16691@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 08 Feb 2014 22:56:44 +0200 (IST) Original-Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([87.69.4.28]) by mtaout28.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0N0P00OQD3IKU720@mtaout28.012.net.il>; Sat, 08 Feb 2014 22:56:44 +0200 (IST) In-reply-to: <7fiospwd6u.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 140.186.70.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:84991 Archived-At: > From: Glenn Morris > Cc: martin rudalics , 16691@debbugs.gnu.org, lekktu@gmail.com > Date: Sat, 08 Feb 2014 15:40:25 -0500 > > > If you bcc'd control@debbugs rather than cc'ing, you would not have the > problem where people, including yourself, include it on all future replies. > > You've previously said you won't do that, but I ask you to reconsider: > > http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2013-08/msg00804.html > > >> If control@debbugs goes in BCC, people will become confused about > >> those weird commands at the beginning of the message. > > That supposes that people 1) read the address list (my experience is > that they do not, you're proving it in this thread); and 2) use it > figure out what "weird commands" might mean (I doubt it). > > By not using bcc, you require everyone who might reply to you to check > and possibly edit the reply list, or to start every single message with > "stop". (Or to use something like message-dont-reply-to-names, which is > a good idea anyway.) (Why does this deserve a discussion? A few messages bounced, so what?) I use this facility so infrequently that I'd probably forget to use BCC anyway, like I always forget that a new bug report cannot be merged with a closed one. If you ask me, this all stems from the fact that debbugs is less helpful than it could have been. It could, for example, be smarter about merging, and it could take commands from messages addressed to NNNN@debbugs.gnu.org, not just control@. If you want to solve these problems, that's the only sure way.