From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#66706: [PATCH] Automatic elisp dialect insertion Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2023 05:27:30 +0300 Message-ID: <83y1frjv1p.fsf@gnu.org> References: <17C83052-7946-45DE-B660-DA7EB82001B0@gmail.com> <83sf61mb54.fsf@gnu.org> <98CD592C-0E82-4795-8168-2B5E597FF7A7@gmail.com> <8334xzlvy9.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="30447"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: mattias.engdegard@gmail.com, 66706@debbugs.gnu.org, stefankangas@gmail.com To: Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Oct 25 04:28:55 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1qvTde-0007h4-WE for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 25 Oct 2023 04:28:55 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qvTdL-0004nK-W0; Tue, 24 Oct 2023 22:28:36 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qvTdJ-0004n4-5g for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 24 Oct 2023 22:28:33 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:5::43]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qvTdI-0004HP-QR for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 24 Oct 2023 22:28:32 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qvTdm-0007eU-7L for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 24 Oct 2023 22:29:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2023 02:29:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 66706 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: patch Original-Received: via spool by 66706-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B66706.169820088529340 (code B ref 66706); Wed, 25 Oct 2023 02:29:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 66706) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Oct 2023 02:28:05 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56988 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qvTcr-0007dA-HZ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 24 Oct 2023 22:28:05 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:50536) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qvTcm-0007cb-I3 for 66706@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 24 Oct 2023 22:28:03 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qvTcC-0004AZ-A3; Tue, 24 Oct 2023 22:27:24 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-version:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: Date; bh=/IoiW+SPxSzp6OK3t9gYwy4xVfGEGl2sGOifNsmERTs=; b=U6/jtV+ljnpfIsB2C22X 5QvtOxYVIEtqjp+RFHMvEl+mLMcRWRvukfSmKas/U/G0xdZ8CU9ulNfJ9sV0vGqk/CDbWvLo6AlpV pxOJG13JBNeLmeUGoNbWO043OgVp9em6TCD0JoUHG6rfBFaZ18OUjkSz/596d92RDVo/SQSGNedyh wVlwimwLgosykSIrT4oUIKwhENarBS554ntWF001SOOxfL2gcbLxvSp0Yz5Geap6G74hKylfwL4D1 2HJtIjRfMmDthyEskQlevKlnQ+n4Hdq8e4UxGoOwe6qSsCjY2lkF2ixy2vpa4NuHB3GE1fJT5NHLp NRWYfxoaV9Q4Aw==; In-Reply-To: (message from Stefan Monnier on Tue, 24 Oct 2023 15:19:46 -0400) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:273137 Archived-At: > From: Stefan Monnier > Cc: Mattias Engdegård , > stefankangas@gmail.com, 66706@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2023 15:19:46 -0400 > > > As mentioned earlier, please make the automatic insertion be off by > > default, and please reflect that in the NEWS entry. > > That makes the patch completely useless. There's already an opt-in > solution (via `auto-insert`), so I'd oppose this patch if it's OFF by > default since it's just added complexity. > > The whole point of this patch is to help those users who don't > know better. But we already have ample features that help those "who don't know better". We turned on lexical-binding by default in *scratch* and other situations, and we have the prominent indication in the mode line when dynamic binding is in effect. How much more is needed, and why? This looks like an overkill to me. Almost like tyranny. And inserting stuff into a buffer without the user's say-so is completely against the Emacs spirit. So I'm very much against this. I can live with it if it's off by default, but if you and others cannot live with such a compromise, then neither will I.