From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#26102: movemail can't connect mail server Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2017 17:31:22 +0200 Message-ID: <83wpbpz19x.fsf@gnu.org> References: <76a96737-f780-00a2-9fd4-70c0e95f0101@cs.ucla.edu> <8360ja1ldi.fsf@gnu.org> <834lyu1jws.fsf@gnu.org> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1489678406 2534 195.159.176.226 (16 Mar 2017 15:33:26 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2017 15:33:26 +0000 (UTC) Cc: hengaini2055@qq.com, 26102@debbugs.gnu.org To: Paul Eggert Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Mar 16 16:33:19 2017 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1coXOp-0007cz-CR for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 16:33:11 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:44336 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1coXOv-0005vY-5B for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 11:33:17 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:52143) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1coXOl-0005uE-1L for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 11:33:08 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1coXOg-0004ll-Sw for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 11:33:06 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.43]:60861) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1coXOg-0004lY-PY for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 11:33:02 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1coXOg-0000Iu-H3 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 11:33:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2017 15:33:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 26102 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: notabug Original-Received: via spool by 26102-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B26102.14896783231099 (code B ref 26102); Thu, 16 Mar 2017 15:33:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 26102) by debbugs.gnu.org; 16 Mar 2017 15:32:03 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59060 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1coXNi-0000Hf-VF for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 11:32:03 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:60681) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1coXNg-0000HB-QD for 26102@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 11:32:01 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1coXNX-0004P2-QI for 26102@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 11:31:55 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:45096) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1coXNX-0004Oy-MV; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 11:31:51 -0400 Original-Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:2584 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1coXNW-0001l7-91; Thu, 16 Mar 2017 11:31:51 -0400 In-reply-to: (message from Paul Eggert on Wed, 15 Mar 2017 15:48:50 -0700) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 208.118.235.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:130646 Archived-At: > Cc: hengaini2055@qq.com, 26102@debbugs.gnu.org > From: Paul Eggert > Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2017 15:48:50 -0700 > > I'm against removing features for no good reason. > > Sure, but there is a good reason here: Emacs movemail supports only unencrypted POP3 connections, which has real security problems in typical network environments today. Which is why Rmail prefers Mailutils, if installed. > Also, as can be seen earlier in this thread, having two 'movemail' commands confuses users and can trip them up. As I wrote elsewhere, the confusion which started this thread has nothing to do with how many movemail's and of which origin are installed. The cockpit errors in the command line would have failed with any version of movemail. Moreover, AFAIK there's no Windows port of GNU Mailutils, so no way to have more than one version of movemail on that OS, for which the bug was filed. > I take your point that there is a backwards-compatibility argument for installing a movemail program that converts mailboxes from system format to Emacs format, when GNU Mailutils is not available. However, we should not distribute a movemail program that encourages users to read their mail unencrypted over a network -- although that may have been OK in the 1980s when POP support was added to movemail, it's a grave disservice to users in typical environments today. It's not a disservice. No one forces users to use this version, let alone encourages them. Quite the contrary. > Attached are two proposed patches to try to improve the current situation. The first removes unencrypted POP3 support from Emacs movemail, as it's a significant security blunder to insist on unencrypted network connections these days. The second changes the Emacs build procedure so that there is a configure-time option for whether to install the substitute 'movemail' program instead of relying on GNU Mailutils 'movemail'; the idea is to let distributors decide whether to make GNU Mailutils be a prerequisite for reading email in Emacs. Both patches, as proposed, are too drastic. I could agree to the second one, provided that the default is changed to build and install our movemail -- this will let distributors decide whether to install it or not, while keeping backward compatibility. (The NEWS part of your patch should then be changed accordingly.) Thanks.