bug#33445: Say "U+1F52E"

bug#33445: Say "U+1F52E"

[積丹尼 Dan Jacobson]

Regarding e.g.,
🔮 U+1F52E CRYSTAL BALL

Well doing C-u C-x = on it should really mention "U+1F52E" somewhere, by
default, without needing customization.

P.S., by the way here on Debian it is just a box with numbers in it,
with no package available to fix it.

bug#33445: Say "U+1F52E"

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: 積丹尼 Dan Jacobson
> 	<jidanni@jidanni.org>
> Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2018 02:50:58 +0800
> 
> Regarding e.g.,
> 🔮 U+1F52E CRYSTAL BALL
> 
> Well doing C-u C-x = on it should really mention "U+1F52E" somewhere, by
> default, without needing customization.

It does, at least twice.  Or maybe I don't understand what is it that
you are missing in the resulting display.

> P.S., by the way here on Debian it is just a box with numbers in it,
> with no package available to fix it.

You need to install a suitable font, I suggest Symbola.

bug#33445: Say "U+1F52E"

[積丹尼 Dan Jacobson]

>>>>> "EZ" == Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:

>> Well doing C-u C-x = on it should really mention "U+1F52E" somewhere, by
>> default, without needing customization.

EZ> It does, at least twice.  Or maybe I don't understand what is it that
EZ> you are missing in the resulting display.

$ grep 1F52E output
code point in charset: 0x1F52E

I want it to say "U+1F52E" somewhere by default.

emacs-version "25.2.2"

bug#33445: Say "U+1F52E"

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: 積丹尼 Dan Jacobson <jidanni@jidanni.org>
> Cc: 33445@debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2018 04:04:13 +0800
> 
> $ grep 1F52E output
> code point in charset: 0x1F52E

Yes, and the charset is Unicode (which is where "U" comes from).

> I want it to say "U+1F52E" somewhere by default.

Why?

bug#33445: Say "U+1F52E"

[積丹尼 Dan Jacobson]

>>>>> "EZ" == Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:

>> I want it to say "U+1F52E" somewhere by default.

EZ> Why?

Because those are their proper names!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Unicode_characters

bug#33445: Say "U+1F52E"

[Werner LEMBERG]

>>> I want it to say "U+1F52E" somewhere by default.
> 
> EZ> Why?
> 
> Because those are their proper names!
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Unicode_characters

I second that.  It might be a small difference to people who are well
acquainted with Emacs coding systems.  However, I believe that Joe
User would prefer the `U+' notation.  (I have a good knowledge of
coding systems, and even I would prefer to see the `U+' prefix :-)


    Werner

bug#33445: Say "U+1F52E"

[Eli Zaretskii]

> Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2018 22:46:52 +0100 (CET)
> Cc: eliz@gnu.org, 33445@debbugs.gnu.org
> From: Werner LEMBERG <wl@gnu.org>
> 
> I second that.  It might be a small difference to people who are well
> acquainted with Emacs coding systems.  However, I believe that Joe
> User would prefer the `U+' notation.  (I have a good knowledge of
> coding systems, and even I would prefer to see the `U+' prefix :-)

This is not about coding systems at all.  The codepoint is shown at
least twice in the display, just without the U+ prefix.

The display produced by that function is already cluttered beyond
hope, so much so that many important details evade you until you
actually read each and every symbol.  Adding the U+ to them (where,
exactly?) would make aa bad situation even worse, for very little
gain.

The proper Unicode name of the character, CRYSTAL BALL, is shown in
the display.

bug#33445: Say "U+1F52E"

[Werner LEMBERG]

>> I second that.  It might be a small difference to people who are
>> well acquainted with Emacs coding systems.  However, I believe that
>> Joe User would prefer the `U+' notation.  (I have a good knowledge
>> of coding systems, and even I would prefer to see the `U+' prefix
>> :-)
> 
> This is not about coding systems at all.  The codepoint is shown at
> least twice in the display, just without the U+ prefix.
> 
> The display produced by that function is already cluttered beyond
> hope, so much so that many important details evade you until you
> actually read each and every symbol.

Well, this is a different issue.

> Adding the U+ to them (where, exactly?) would make aa bad situation
> even worse, for very little gain.
> 
> The proper Unicode name of the character, CRYSTAL BALL, is shown in
> the display.

I would like to see

  U+1F52E CRYSTAL BALL


    Werner

bug#33445: Say "U+1F52E"

[Eli Zaretskii]

> Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2018 06:44:35 +0100 (CET)
> Cc: jidanni@jidanni.org, 33445@debbugs.gnu.org
> From: Werner LEMBERG <wl@gnu.org>
> 
> I would like to see
> 
>   U+1F52E CRYSTAL BALL

Given that the current display is

	       position: 588 of 1015 (58%), column: 2
	      character: 🔮 (displayed as 🔮) (codepoint 128302, #o372456, #x1f52e)
      preferred charset: unicode (Unicode (ISO10646))
  code point in charset: 0x1F52E
		 script: symbol
		 syntax: w 	which means: word
	       category: .:Base
	       to input: type "C-x 8 RET 1f52e" or "C-x 8 RET CRYSTAL BALL"
	    buffer code: #xF0 #x9F #x94 #xAE
	      file code: #xF0 #x9F #x94 #xAE (encoded by coding system utf-8)
		display: by this font (glyph code)
      uniscribe:-outline-Symbola-normal-normal-normal-serif-15-*-*-*-p-*-iso8859-1 (#x1AE4)

  Character code properties: customize what to show
    name: CRYSTAL BALL

With the codepoint shown 3 times above the name, why would you want it
displayed yet another time?  Isn't that highly redundant?

Emacs displays this information for Emacs users.  "C-x =" is a
general-purpose command, not a command intended for learning Unicode
or perusing Unicode blocks.  If someone writes a command for viewing
Unicode blocks, I can understand why U+1F52E should be there.  But
this is not that case.

bug#33445: Say "U+1F52E"

[Werner LEMBERG]

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>
Subject: Re: bug#33445: Say "U+1F52E"
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2018 11:28:59 +0200

>> Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2018 06:44:35 +0100 (CET)
>> Cc: jidanni@jidanni.org, 33445@debbugs.gnu.org
>> From: Werner LEMBERG <wl@gnu.org>
>> 
>> I would like to see
>> 
>>   U+1F52E CRYSTAL BALL
> 
> Given that the current display is
> 
> 	       position: 588 of 1015 (58%), column: 2
> 	      character: 🔮 (displayed as 🔮) (codepoint 128302, #o372456, #x1f52e)

Is this `codepoint' ever different to the value shown two rows later?

>       preferred charset: unicode (Unicode (ISO10646))
>   code point in charset: 0x1F52E

This could be

  code point in charset: U+1F52E

by special-casing Unicode, contrary to other charsets.


    Werner

bug#33445: Say "U+1F52E"

[Eli Zaretskii]

> Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2018 11:36:58 +0100 (CET)
> Cc: jidanni@jidanni.org, 33445@debbugs.gnu.org
> From: Werner LEMBERG <wl@gnu.org>
> 
> > 	       position: 588 of 1015 (58%), column: 2
> > 	      character: 🔮 (displayed as 🔮) (codepoint 128302, #o372456, #x1f52e)
> 
> Is this `codepoint' ever different to the value shown two rows later?

For characters from other charsets, yes.

> >       preferred charset: unicode (Unicode (ISO10646))
> >   code point in charset: 0x1F52E
> 
> This could be
> 
>   code point in charset: U+1F52E
> 
> by special-casing Unicode, contrary to other charsets.

What would be the utility of U+ for Emacs users?  It just makes this
more confusing for people who aren't familiar with the U+nnnn notation
(which obviously excludes me, you, and the OP).  Emacs doesn't accept
that notation in any input mode, and never displays it.

But I'm beginning to repeat myself, so I will shut up on this from now
on.

bug#33445: Say "U+1F52E"

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: 積丹尼 Dan Jacobson <jidanni@jidanni.org>
> Cc: 33445@debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2018 04:21:55 +0800
> 
> >>>>> "EZ" == Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
> 
> >> I want it to say "U+1F52E" somewhere by default.
> 
> EZ> Why?
> 
> Because those are their proper names!
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Unicode_characters

The proper name is CRYSTAL BALL, and it is shown.

bug#33445: Say "U+1F52E"

[積丹尼 Dan Jacobson]

Also currently saying

            character: 🔮 (displayed as 🔮) (codepoint 128302, #o372456, #x1f52e)
    preferred charset: unicode (Unicode (ISO10646))
code point in charset: 0x1F52E

leaves the user still not totally sure the last line really is talking
about the second line or not.

Otherwise instead of saying

    preferred charset: unicode (Unicode (ISO10646))
code point in charset: 0x1F52E

It should say

    preferred charset: unicode (Unicode (ISO10646))
code point in preferred charset: 0x1F52E

That way we could be sure it is really talking about unicode.

bug#33445: Say "U+1F52E"

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: 積丹尼 Dan Jacobson <jidanni@jidanni.org>
> Cc: Werner LEMBERG <wl@gnu.org>,  33445@debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2018 20:41:20 +0800
> 
> Otherwise instead of saying
> 
>     preferred charset: unicode (Unicode (ISO10646))
> code point in charset: 0x1F52E
> 
> It should say
> 
>     preferred charset: unicode (Unicode (ISO10646))
> code point in preferred charset: 0x1F52E
> 
> That way we could be sure it is really talking about unicode.

Fine with me, but we will have to realign the other lines, as they are
all aligned to have the colon in the same column.

bug#33445: Say "U+1F52E"

[Eli Zaretskii]

> Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2018 15:09:55 +0200
> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>
> Cc: 33445@debbugs.gnu.org
> 
> > Otherwise instead of saying
> > 
> >     preferred charset: unicode (Unicode (ISO10646))
> > code point in charset: 0x1F52E
> > 
> > It should say
> > 
> >     preferred charset: unicode (Unicode (ISO10646))
> > code point in preferred charset: 0x1F52E
> > 
> > That way we could be sure it is really talking about unicode.
> 
> Fine with me, but we will have to realign the other lines, as they are
> all aligned to have the colon in the same column.

I've now removed the "preferred" part from the display, so it says
just "charset", thus the next line is more clearly related to this
one.

Thanks.