From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#33654: 27.0.50; No record of init file errors printed in *Messages* Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2018 12:46:21 +0200 Message-ID: <83wook47pe.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87y392gobm.fsf@moondust.localdomain> <83zhth6c7v.fsf@gnu.org> <87o99xe032.fsf@moondust.localdomain> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1544265909 7104 195.159.176.226 (8 Dec 2018 10:45:09 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2018 10:45:09 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 33654@debbugs.gnu.org To: "N. Jackson" , martin rudalics Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Dec 08 11:45:04 2018 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gVa6a-0001hj-Cf for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 08 Dec 2018 11:45:04 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:50272 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1gVa8h-0006Mq-72 for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 08 Dec 2018 05:47:15 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:53222) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1gVa8X-0006MW-Ox for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 08 Dec 2018 05:47:06 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1gVa8U-00011n-21 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 08 Dec 2018 05:47:05 -0500 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.43]:33424) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1gVa8T-00011h-U3 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 08 Dec 2018 05:47:01 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gVa8T-000239-P0 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 08 Dec 2018 05:47:01 -0500 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2018 10:47:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 33654 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 33654-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B33654.15442660117856 (code B ref 33654); Sat, 08 Dec 2018 10:47:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at 33654) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Dec 2018 10:46:51 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37682 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gVa8I-00022e-KP for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 08 Dec 2018 05:46:50 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:43547) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gVa8G-00022P-Bq for 33654@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 08 Dec 2018 05:46:48 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1gVa87-0000vl-Rf for 33654@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 08 Dec 2018 05:46:42 -0500 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:45964) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1gVa87-0000vf-Np; Sat, 08 Dec 2018 05:46:39 -0500 Original-Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=1633 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1gVa87-0005LX-BA; Sat, 08 Dec 2018 05:46:39 -0500 In-reply-to: <87o99xe032.fsf@moondust.localdomain> (nljlistbox2@gmail.com) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 208.118.235.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:153216 Archived-At: > From: "N. Jackson" > Cc: 33654@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2018 12:08:33 -0500 > > I think, perhaps, that if something were written to *Messages* to inform > the user that there was a warning/error, and to direct them to the > *Warnings* buffer for details, it would make it less likely that the > user would miss the information altogether. Something like > > An initialization error occurred -- see *Warnings* buffer for details. Don't we already use the echo area to show the error itself? > Also, the frame that was split to display the *Warnings* buffer was not > the one that had the focus when Emacs finished starting up. (Indeed, I > think it might have been on the most deeply buried frame.) There is a > very high probability I would never see a warning/error displayed so > obscurely. > > It would seem that it would be better, if it were feasible, if the > *Warnings* buffer could be displayed in a window on the frame that > has the focus after Emacs finishes starting up. > > > DETAILS > > Here is a detailed example of the problem. I think this might have > really happened to me in real life (resulting in Bug##33536 [1]). > > Scenario: I have a notion that it would be a good idea to remove and > then re-install an Emacs package. I decide that to be sure that none of > it still hanging around in memory, I should exit an restart Emacs > between removing the package and reinstalling it. The package in this > case happens to be bbdb from Gnu Elpa. I have > > (bbdb-initialize 'gnus 'message) > > in my init file. > > When Emacs starts after bbdb has been uninstalled, the above line > results in an error. A *Warnings* buffer is displayed as follows: > > Warning (initialization): An error occurred while loading `/home/nlj/.emacs': > > Symbol's function definition is void: bbdb-initialize > > To ensure normal operation, you should investigate and remove the > cause of the error in your initialization file. Start Emacs with > the `--debug-init' option to view a complete error backtrace. > > But I don't see this error/warning message because I don't visit the > frame on which it is displayed. After all, it's just going to be a short > Emacs session during which all I'm going to do is install bbdb. I'm not sure we can guarantee that the frame showing *Warnings* is always on top, since user initialization can create any number of frames. Maybe Martin has some tricks up his sleeves? > In my *Messages* buffer is displayed: > > Loading cua-base...done > Loading delsel...done > Loading desktop...done > Loading battery...done > Loading time...done > Loading elec-pair...done > Loading saveplace...done > Loading savehist...done > Loading paren...done > Loading /home/nlj/.recentf...done > Cleaning up the recentf list...done (0 removed) > Starting new Ispell process /usr/bin/aspell with default dictionary... > Loading dired-x...done > Setting up indent for shell type sh > Indentation variables are now local. > Indentation setup for shell type sh > Ispell process killed > Starting new Ispell process /usr/bin/aspell with default dictionary... > Setting up indent for shell type sh > Indentation variables are now local. > Indentation setup for shell type sh > Omitting... > Omitted 384 lines. > uncompressing de.map.gz...done > Wrote /data/projects/vc/emacs/git/emacs/.emacs.desktop.lock > Desktop: 7 frames, 54 buffers restored. > For information about GNU Emacs and the GNU system, type C-h C-a. > > This shows no indication of the initialization error. Delayed warnings are not written to *Messages*, they are written to *Warnings* instead. This is so they don't get discarded if *Messages* gets too long. You just need to become accustomed to look in *Warnings* as you are already accustomed to look in *Messages* (which by default is not shown in any window, right?). > Now it might be a user error to look for an indication of start up > problems only in *Messages*, and it might a user error to miss the > *Warnings* buffer, but I think it would improve Emacs, were it feasible, > if it helped the user to avoid these mistakes by mentioning the > error/warning in *Messages*, and by displaying the *Warnings* buffer in > a frame that isn't buried. Mentioning that in *Messages* is problematic, as it could disappear without a trace. I think.