From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#20322: 25.0.50; indent-tabs-mode should default to nil Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2015 19:10:46 +0300 Message-ID: <83vbgx9xtl.fsf@gnu.org> References: <861tjn3069.fsf@yandex.ru> <552D20B6.8030005@yandex.ru> <83mw2abul3.fsf@gnu.org> <552D34BC.4090806@yandex.ru> <83h9sibt0q.fsf@gnu.org> <552D7796.2090109@yandex.ru> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1429114554 26079 80.91.229.3 (15 Apr 2015 16:15:54 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2015 16:15:54 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 20322@debbugs.gnu.org To: Dmitry Gutov Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Apr 15 18:15:42 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1YiPyY-00019y-7M for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 15 Apr 2015 18:15:42 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:33066 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YiPyX-0005d5-GH for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 15 Apr 2015 12:15:41 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:54526) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YiPu9-0006kJ-CQ for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 15 Apr 2015 12:11:13 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YiPu3-0004yT-BO for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 15 Apr 2015 12:11:09 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.43]:39252) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YiPu3-0004yH-6V for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 15 Apr 2015 12:11:03 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1YiPu2-0007yT-LI for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 15 Apr 2015 12:11:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2015 16:11:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 20322 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 20322-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B20322.142911424430619 (code B ref 20322); Wed, 15 Apr 2015 16:11:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 20322) by debbugs.gnu.org; 15 Apr 2015 16:10:44 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57261 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1YiPtj-0007xn-Jm for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 15 Apr 2015 12:10:43 -0400 Original-Received: from mtaout28.012.net.il ([80.179.55.184]:60831) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1YiPtg-0007xR-DJ for 20322@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 15 Apr 2015 12:10:42 -0400 Original-Received: from conversion-daemon.mtaout28.012.net.il by mtaout28.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0NMU00O00V607E00@mtaout28.012.net.il> for 20322@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 15 Apr 2015 19:09:16 +0300 (IDT) Original-Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([87.69.4.28]) by mtaout28.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0NMU00E1LVJFXSA0@mtaout28.012.net.il>; Wed, 15 Apr 2015 19:09:16 +0300 (IDT) In-reply-to: <552D7796.2090109@yandex.ru> X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 140.186.70.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:101559 Archived-At: > Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2015 23:24:54 +0300 > From: Dmitry Gutov > CC: 20322@debbugs.gnu.org > > On 04/14/2015 06:59 PM, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > > Then by all means let's fix those modes whose defaults aren't. > > So, most of them? If it turns out that most of the modes need indent-tabs-mode set to nil, you can make it the default in prog-mode, or even in fundamental mode. As long as the modes that don't need to avoid tabs are changed to have the same default as now, I won't object. > Like I said, in the end that would call for the change of the > default value. In the meantime, should we have an > xxx-indent-tabs-mode variable per major mode? I don't see a need for a mode-specific variable in this case; do you? > I understand that C (and, to lesser extent, C++) have a lot of history, > and a lot of variance in their communities. > > But the only semi-official style guide I could find that advises to use > tabs in the Linux kernel one: > http://www.maultech.com/chrislott/resources/cstyle/LinuxKernelCodingStyle.txt > > The GNU coding style, to the best of my understanding, does not mention > tabs at all. Let's just honor history in this case, OK? > > The vast majority of people I work with use tabs, FWIW. > > Do they use 8-column offsets, then? No (that's how I know they use tabs in the first place!). > >> Even folks who want tabs have to configure stuff, because of our > >> `tab-width' default (which is indeed something we cannot change now): > >> http://stackoverflow.com/a/21788651/615245 > > > > Our tab-width default is simply the default tab width everywhere. > > I'm not sure what you mean by that, but my point was, the defaults are > not suitable as-is (even) for a certain part of our users that use tabs. For a customizable option, this is not an issue. I can understand that the new generation may want to get rid of tabs, but since most of that generation don't work in C/C++, I think we can leave those alone for now.