From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#37527: [PATCH] Install C source code for for debugging help Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2020 21:24:35 +0200 Message-ID: <83v9oynhqk.fsf@gnu.org> References: <20190926200752.12563-1-eggert@cs.ucla.edu> <83lfu9hscn.fsf@gnu.org> <87y2y8944m.fsf@gmx.de> <837e5siwmz.fsf@gnu.org> <87pnje6jaf.fsf@gmx.de> <87imp46f5n.fsf@gmx.de> <3c936479-9341-caf1-2d08-7c236a660061@cs.ucla.edu> <87lftwbn4t.fsf@gmx.de> <733562c8-8676-4c73-34ff-a3f6659e5b70@cs.ucla.edu> <838spvznjz.fsf@gnu.org> <875zkzpnpf.fsf@gmx.de> <83ftk3xxd2.fsf@gnu.org> <87lfq2rlh0.fsf@marxist.se> <89b5298c-bc22-06ae-635a-0bf6b9dccb56@cs.ucla.edu> <8336c8wxmn.fsf@gnu.org> <83sgk8vg6y.fsf@gnu.org> <0f25beb7-19f6-cd78-e355-bc9af1f8384d@cs.ucla.edu> <83h80oupya.fsf@gnu.org> <83k15itfoa.fsf@gnu.org> <162efbd0-5d99-4074-4a4c-e186b0765f70@cs.ucla.edu> <83y2tyrpxx.fsf@gnu.org> <835zh0q85p.fsf@gnu.org> <862c4cca-3a79-f3a7-e88a-0f478c454cde@cs.ucla.edu> <837e1ep55k.fsf@gnu.org> <67c4c197-7c4f-0e02-366d-efa610bfc8cc@cs.ucla.edu> Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="23330"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: stefan@marxist.se, michael.albinus@gmx.de, 37527@debbugs.gnu.org To: Paul Eggert Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Jan 26 20:25:43 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1ivnXS-000623-Rv for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 26 Jan 2020 20:25:42 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:36484 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ivnXR-0003Nl-Pl for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 26 Jan 2020 14:25:41 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:34099) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ivnWr-0003CK-Qr for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 26 Jan 2020 14:25:06 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ivnWq-0000UX-BR for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 26 Jan 2020 14:25:05 -0500 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]:51536) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ivnWo-0000Rz-US for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 26 Jan 2020 14:25:04 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ivnWn-00045y-Qu for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 26 Jan 2020 14:25:01 -0500 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2020 19:25:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 37527 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: patch Original-Received: via spool by 37527-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B37527.158006669515724 (code B ref 37527); Sun, 26 Jan 2020 19:25:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at 37527) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Jan 2020 19:24:55 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57509 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ivnWg-00045Y-MA for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 26 Jan 2020 14:24:54 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:53222) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ivnWe-00045M-KO for 37527@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 26 Jan 2020 14:24:52 -0500 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:49080) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ivnWY-0000Iq-Fu; Sun, 26 Jan 2020 14:24:46 -0500 Original-Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=3704 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1ivnWX-00021Z-AC; Sun, 26 Jan 2020 14:24:45 -0500 In-reply-to: <67c4c197-7c4f-0e02-366d-efa610bfc8cc@cs.ucla.edu> (message from Paul Eggert on Sun, 26 Jan 2020 10:18:38 -0800) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 209.51.188.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:175316 Archived-At: > Cc: stefan@marxist.se, michael.albinus@gmx.de, rgm@gnu.org, > 37527@debbugs.gnu.org > From: Paul Eggert > Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2020 10:18:38 -0800 > > On 1/26/20 8:13 AM, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > they are both unreliable > > Only if we make them so. As things stand, emacs-source-directory is more > reliable than source-directory is, and if we remove the configure-time option to > omit installation of source code (a step I favor) we will make > emacs-source-directory even more reliable than it is now. > > It's long past time that we stopped making Emacs source code a second-class > citizen. The GNU philosophy is that it should be easy to see the source, and we > should be guided by that philosophy here. > > We cannot rely on distributors to make things easy here. Some distributors do > not install source; others install it in different places, only optionally, and > do so in obscure ways that most users don't know about. Distributors will follow > our lead if we install the source in a well-specified place. If we tried instead > to find the nook or cranny (if any) where the current distributor squirrels away > the Emacs source code, this problem would continue to be a maintenance headache > for us. It's not worth the hassle. Sorry, I cannot be convinced by reiterating the same views and high-level abstract ideas. We had a discussion, where no consensus was reached about making this the default. I don't see why would you decide to unilaterally override all those valid opinions to the contrary. Please make this opt-in.